Build an Engaging Online Community

Transcript

Opening

Hello, I'm Kerry Guard and Welcome to Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders.

Welcome back to season 12.

In this final episode, I hang out with Tom Wedding from Australia. I love podcasting and connecting with people from all around the world. Tom is committed to building digital communities on behalf of his clients. If you listen to my conversation with Sekou and Aileen Casmano, you may have heard us talking about why communities are powerful and why we should build them, and this episode breaks down exactly how to do it.

Let's take a listen.

Conversation

Kerry Guard: Hello, Tom. Thank you for joining me on Tea Time.

Tom Wedding: It’s great to be on.

Kerry Guard: For our conversation, we're going to try and keep the time here and not go over because you and I could talk about this all day. But before we kick off for our listeners, tell us your story. Tom, what do you do? And how did you get there?

Tom Wedding: I was a street performer for three years on the streets, just performing in front of crowds, bringing people together, and entertaining them, and I love that. Unfortunately, I had an injury. I had to transition to online business, and that's when I dig into all these different business models that I guess a lot of people just start with drop shipping and agencies and all this kind of jazz.

I stumbled across coaching, set up a successful coaching business, and then decided to work with a lot of community stuff. So just built communities through Facebook groups and grew a six-figure business from that. And then, I decided to help other people do the same thing, so that's where I'm at now: just helping people build communities, bring people together, and create their tribe.

Kerry Guard: I want to dive into all that, and I know listeners will say, “Tom isn't a tech marketing leader.” And you're right. He is technically not a marketer who works for a tech company. However, sometimes, there's just somebody who comes across and tells a great story, and I mix it up and give us ideas. And that's what I wanted Tom to come on to do, so he's going to give us a lot of great ideas related to community and what he's been doing. Before we get there, Tom, what's one challenge you currently face?

Tom Wedding: That's a great question. I would say the ability to scale back by finding the right people. I think that's the biggest problem. Because it's easy to find one or two great people, but making that five or ten people is tricky. I've got to work on some leadership skills, which is my biggest obstacle.

Kerry Guard: Leadership. It's fun. It is fun, and that's a whole other podcast. We'll take that offline because I'm doing the same thing. I'm on the same journey. Let's get back to the community. Can you just be an Aussie down under during the summertime right now? Can you talk to us about what community means to you in relation to what you do?

Tom Wedding: I think community exists far beyond just business. Many people are well connected outside of business communities, hobbies, and stuff people connect over or just common beliefs or shared interests. All these kinds of little communities pop up. And I think it's an important part of our lives being connected to people.

You need to find your tribe. But also, it's even better if you can build your tribe too because then you can choose who you surround yourself with, and that's very powerful. I'm sure everyone's heard the same. Your network is your net worth. It sounds so cliche and annoying, and I hate hearing it, but it's very frickin true because everyone that you surround yourself with will help you get to that next level. If you can create a pod and a tribe around you, that helps you to do that. It's great for you but also great for the people in it because they get to the same thing. Community is just about bringing people together with shared interests, vision, and goals and helping them all to work together as a collective to move faster and easier without having so much struggle and so many obstacles in isolation. I think having that aspect of connection helps with that growth.

Kerry Guard: What are some of the communities you've created? You tapped and dabbled a little bit when you talked about coaching and Facebook and now doing it further. Can you give us some examples of some of the communities you've had a hand in?

Tom Wedding: It's been all weird niches. I built a Facebook group for agency owners, coaches, and our clients. We've all got different niches. There's an online casino. We built a Facebook group, which is such a weird niche. Then there's a hemp brand we're working with, and that's probably my favorite one. I'm just bringing people together who are using these products and seeing amazing results because they get so personal. Those testimonials share that story with people, and there is so much engagement. I would say the highest amount of engagement is in that group compared to any other group. It's amazing. If you have an e-commerce brand, or something similar, where you're selling products that help people, I recommend having a community attached to that because it's the most engagement I've ever seen in any community. It's so amazing! Simple posts that have changed their lives are insane.

Kerry Guard: In terms of building the community you primarily work on, I'm going to get a little bit into the nitty gritty here. I'll try it, and then I'll try and pull up. But I can't help but wonder how because it's where I go to the how. So it's mostly on Facebook that you're building these communities?

Tom Wedding: Yeah, so mostly Facebook groups. That's pretty much all I built communities on just because it's so easy to access audiences there. I'll give you the exact strategy we did to grow those groups. It's nothing spectacular. It grows groups by about 100 to 150 members per month, and that's kind of the numbers. We've seen that across pretty much every niche. No matter your niche, this method allows you to grow a community by about hundred to two fifty members. All you have to do is have one Facebook profile. If you have more, this will work better and faster. All you have to do is have one Facebook profile, and all you do is build up the friends list of that profile by sending friend requests to people in groups that fit your ideal audience. You would go out and let's say you're targeting people with arthritis, you would go into arthritis groups, preferably in your country, because that's going to be more hot or warm leads. You go into those groups, join them with that profile, and then your friend requests everyone in that group. They join that group because they have arthritis or are related to that niche. You send this request, and then you just use the invite button on the Facebook group to invite people into that group. You can do the same thing with email campaigns as well. So really easy to get email lists nowadays for your niche. Grab a couple of email lists, make some email campaigns, and run those to get people into the group. It doesn't have to be fancy, just sending requests and inviting people to the group that goes are groups of 150 members per month. It’s so pretty powerful.

Kerry Guard: What's the value in creating a Facebook? There are already existing Facebook groups that you just mentioned that you go and join existing groups, friend requests them, and then bring them in. It sounds counterintuitive, like groups already exist. What value are you bringing and having them join another group?

Tom Wedding: Many people in those groups are not active, just because they have no very engaged groups or the admin isn't putting any effort into it. Those are the ideal ones to look for as the ones where there are a lot of people there who fit the ideal audience characteristics, but they don't necessarily have a lot of engagement happening within the group. Whether that's because the admins are not posting or encouraging that engagement, or there's just no connection. It's not just enough to have people in a group. You have to have people who want to be there and contribute because they see the bigger vision of why they're in that community. I think these admins often don't understand that, and they just think they can pitch their product or sell something, and people get turned off instantly. And someone might join this group, and then a couple of days later, never even know it existed. I don't think that's an issue. I've never had issues with people who are in one group and joined our group and then hang on, “why should I join this group?” It doesn't happen because, a lot of the time, those groups are just not being run very well.

Kerry Guard: This sounds like a lot of work, which is great. It must be because you built your business back on top of it, but for people who are trying to bootstrap this, I want to be clear that it's not just building a group, what I hear you say, or what it sounds like is there's a whole system on the backend to act, connect and engage. And I don't want to say sell because that's not really what this is about. But to connect and engage for sure and have a facilitator, is that really what it comes down to? Is having somebody who's just going to hang out in this group?

Tom Wedding: There are several ways to build that group and structure it. Many people, I find, want to make it into like a more personal brand kind of thing. They're like, “Hey, I'm the leader of this community. I'm the admin.” It's a public figure thing. People look up to that person, and they're leading the group. So that's one way you can run the group, which will take a lot of your time because you have to show up. But I found it works if you can tie it to your brand. We will company, which works well, especially if you've already got a pre-existing customer base that loves your products or services because they will become what I like to call your founding members. And essentially, what that means is those the first 100 or 200 people who jump in, that you're building close connections with all that already know so much about your brand, that they're willing to persons thought that engagement, train and kick it off.

Having a facilitator helps. I've automated this process with VAs with virtual assistants in the Philippines. Once the system is down, it's easy to run and manage. It's about making people feel they belong and have a space to contribute and share without judgment. That's the most important thing with the community. If you can keep people engaged and connected, they will keep posting and coming back to that community.

Kerry Guard: I'm talking to many B2B tech marketers who are now listening. I understand the power of Facebook in terms of how easy it is, especially the audience-building piece and the fact that a million groups already exist. Do you feel that you're missing out on people? I guess it depends on the niche. Does it sound like you're doing a lot more from e-commerce in less of a business owner standpoint or B2B? Is that the case for you? Or are you doing B2B and doing it on Facebook, which is successful?

Tom Wedding: I'm doing more B2B than anything. There are a lot of business owners on Facebook, and I think that's probably the biggest platform for business owners to be on. I noticed some people would have their little quirks. They're like, “ Nah, I don't want to go on Facebook. I don't use Facebook. I'm a LinkedIn person.” But that's any platform. If you're on LinkedIn, there will be people on LinkedIn or Facebook. You just got to take it as if you're going to work on one platform; just accept the last that there are going to be people you're going to miss. But if you want to go multi-platform, that will take more work, systems, processes, and people. It just all depends. You can build a community on any platform, and it will work. Because there will always be some of your audience hanging out on whatever platform.

Kerry Guard: I talked to a couple of gals two seasons ago who built a marketing women community. They were just getting started. It's a very different conversation because it's more around the why of the community. They were still trying to figure it out a lot of the how they had a lot of grassroots stuff happening. It's pretty magical what's going on almost a year later. I liked this conversation from a house standpoint, but just to give some context of it in the sense that it doesn't have to be Facebook, as they're doing it on slack, which makes a ton of sense. I don't know what chat platform you're using. We're all on a chat platform all day long now that we're completely remote, giving that easy access to people to pop into their community and be stressed out or say, "I'm trying to hire this person." Who do you know?" or "Anybody else running into this problem?" It's nice to have it there, and it works well for them. I love that you're doing this with Facebook. I think it makes a ton of sense for what you're doing. It doesn't have to be Facebook, but there is a commitment. There are different systems and processes you will have to build depending on your route. But in terms of you throwing out some numbers there in terms of success, you said you're growing the channels by 100 to 150 people per month per group through the system. What other metrics are there? Is it just about the growth? What other metrics are you looking at to determine whether or not this is a success or what you're attempting to achieve?

Tom Wedding: It's always going to depend on the niche. But a lot of the time, looking at how many posts people make, that's a huge metric. Because people post and comment on stuff that shows that people are engaged in the community, you're doing a good job facilitating that connection between people. I agree with you that chat platforms are so much better than what you were saying just before that. I will not use Facebook groups if you're building anything, whether a serious or a paid community. I would use something more intuitive, like a chat platform like slack. There's also one called circle that I liked, which is a great community building tool and just a platform that's easier for people to create that connection. Facebook can get quite cluttered if people are looking at the newsfeed. They're going to see 50 different posts from 100 different people. It's going to get pretty cluttered quickly. People are going to forget about that group. You want a platform that will focus on your community and what you have so that when people log in, I'll see anything else. I think the metrics are back to the metrics. The engagement is the important one. If you're building a community that will serve a lead generation kind of thing, you're planning to make sales from that group from that community; I'll be focused on the conversations around the service or the product.

It's great to have people talking about all these different things. It's great, and asking questions, and whatever and giving value, that's great. But if you can keep the community focused on the company and what you are about in the why and the vision, it's very powerful to have people see that. Because once it kicks off, the engagement starts kicking off, and people are posting, it becomes normal for people. They see one or two people post, and then suddenly, they're like, “Well, I got a post now.” And so that's one of the most powerful things we've realized: we have a welcome post with every group we have. And essentially, what happens in that welcome post is every new member who joins gets tagged in that welcome post with an individual message. Customized messages to that person welcoming them to that group are very powerful. As soon as one person comments an introduction of themselves in that comment section, everyone else sees it, and they're like, “Okay, cool. I got a comment. Now, I've got to introduce myself. I want to belong here.” And so it creates this flywheel effect, and people are starting to engage in the community. The first thing anyone says is they join the group and get tagged in the welcome post. It's a breakdown of what the groups are about, the vision behind it, why you need to be here, and here's what to do next: introduce yourself to the group so we can all get to know and check out the resources we have, check out this, and whatever you have. It's focused on that introduction because that engagement and kicking it off is the best metric you could ever look for.

Kerry Guard: Go back to the thing quickly because you said we'd come back to metrics because this is awesome, and there's a lot of how in there, which is even more awesome. But going back to what you said, I love the idea of chat. I just want to be clear with Facebook groups that say Facebook groups are great when you're talking to a big group. It's very tough if you also want to have one-on-one conversations where you start connecting with individuals. That becomes tough on Facebook. So chat, from that standpoint, I agree a hundred percent. It's really powerful. I've had a hard time posting to the greater public. I get complete stage fright and either rewrite the posts 100 times to make sure that I'm like stating what I want to say, wanting to be clear or trying to take all these accounts of where people are not trying to like. I get total stage fright. But when I pay attention to where people are and what they're doing, I can individually connect or do replies. I love replies. Replies are great, and all that happens Facebook has done a little bit, but from a chat standpoint, it's nice to go off and have these sub conversations without saying, “Hi, everybody can see me?.”

Tom Wedding: Yeah, that's why such a huge part of our process is tied in with messenger because those one-to-one conversations are very powerful, and that's another section that I've automated as well with VAs, having people reached out to so as they join the group, they get tagged in this welcome purse, and they make a post in the group that might introduce themselves. That's great for the engagement within the group, and then we're also having that VA reach out to that person and send them a personal message. And that's all happening automatically because it's delegated. This creates so much connection, especially when you have a process to lead someone. We're sending them a welcome message, and they respond, “where do we take the conversation next?” Having that process mapped out is very key because it creates and builds a relationship with that person. When you have that process mapped out, you're not just asking random questions. It's asking questions for the sake of progressing through that sequence. You're leading people towards an outcome you want with us to sign up for this free resource, or it's to take them to this page or to get them to do that. You're leading them to an outcome. Chat doesn't become this, just messy back and forth of what's going on in your life. It's got a structure to it. Chat is a huge part of it, so when you tie that messenger piece to the Facebook group, it's very powerful to use. It can be done on slack, and it can be done on any platform; just keep in mind that you're going to get a lot more traction with Facebook groups because it's a social media platform, and there are people on there who are not just there for your community. There's going to be a lot more potential to reach people and a different audience, so that's the only reason I think Facebook groups are better for audience building for lead generation. If you have a paid community or something that's a more tight-knit community you're trying to build, I would 100% build that off Facebook on another platform, slack, or circle. That's where I stand with all that.

Kerry Guard: Let's talk about paid for a second. I don't know that brands would go in that direction, but maybe they will. Why would you ever start a paid community? How do you sell the value? That seems tricky.

Tom Wedding: It's funny. That's the business I'm launching now as a paid community. It doesn't necessarily sell on the deliverables. No one's joining a community for the deliverables, like, “Hey, you get two coaching calls. You get this and that, and this training.” No one cares. What drives sales for a paid community is the vision and the why and getting people sold. It depends on how you're selling it. Let's say you're running a landing page that's the source of your main sales for the paid community. You have a VSL on there, a video sales letter. The video should never talk about, “Okay, here's exactly what you're going to get, you're going to get a one-to-one coach and coaching calls every week.” It shouldn't talk about that. It should talk about the whole reason why they should join. This is a community of people who are struggling with arthritis. We're going to help you to solve this problem. We're going to give you the game plan to go from struggling. I don't even know that niche. I'm just babbling, but you get deep on why this community exists and the vision behind that.

Kerry Guard: I think that's true, paid or unpaid. People's time, people's eyeballs. We just had this conversation before we started recording in the post-pandemic world that we are entering right now. People are looking at how they spend their time and where they want to be spending their time. You better have a damn good reason as to why they should come to join this community and spend the time. They're given this revelation we're all having of how life is so short. What is that? What is that value? What is that problem you're trying to solve them? Why will coming to this community help them have a better life? It's got to be that big. I know, that feels vaporware and scary like that problem solved. It is a little cramped solution. But it's not like a big hairy problem solution that's not going to be solved overnight versus, exactly, we sell the specific product to do this specific thing and come to this community to learn more about it.

Tom Wedding: It's the same reason people buy Apple products when they're not necessarily the best product on the market. They're not bought into the product. They're bought into the vision behind it. You've got to incorporate that same thing for the community. You're joining this to be a part of something. This is the apple of communities, and that's how you have to treat it like people join it, to be a part of it, not to get what they can get from it, not to take from it. They want to contribute to it. They feel drawn to contribute to it. I think of times when I've joined communities and felt so welcomed and connected to the people there that I just had to contribute. I felt I needed to contribute. It's tying that vision in, which is very important.

Kerry Guard. Let's talk about those communities. I've joined many communities over the last year and was there for a month or six weeks. I haven't looked at it, logged in, or checked it out. I have lost interest. So what for you keeps pulling you back in? What's the draw for you?

Tom Wedding: Yeah, that's a great question. I've been through so many different communities that I've just forgotten about. But there's one that comes to mind. And it was one of the first ever coaching programs I ever joined. When I started online, this community was like 5000 people or something ridiculous. But what drew me was how the person running that community showed up. They would always show up. Even though this community was like a 5000-member community, and there were so many people there, they would always show up every week and connect with everyone on such a personal level. There's so much accountability and support that was happening. People were checking in with me frequently, and I made some of the best friendships from that group just because connecting with people was encouraged so much.

Everyone was introducing themselves and commenting on each other's stuff. And if you knew how to question, it was always answered instantly. All these little things combined created this ecosystem where you felt like you belonged. You never wanted to leave because you felt so supported and held so accountable for what you went on to achieve. If you leave, you will lose everything. So that's how I felt joining that community.

Kerry Guard: It depends on what you're buying into. I guess that's my culture thing. They work because they create a sense of incredible belonging. They're just able, and that's what it is in terms of connection. I grew up with my family, my dad's side of the family, who is Christian, but I never connected with that. I'm a very scientific person. This whole idea of God befuddled me. I don't understand. I can't see and feel it. I don't get it. It doesn't resonate with me. I went to my dad's house because the sense of community is so strong, like, you're on your path and your journey to figuring out whether you do or don't. You're just here, and we welcome you. It was your family. We're just here to, and we're just here to sing songs and have fun and learn and grow. It was like that strong sense of community that made me go. It wasn't the belief system. I was proud to figure that out. Regardless of whether I believed it was who these people were, their beliefs made me feel connected. It's powerful when it's just welcoming, which is everything you're saying. Is that welcomed?

Tom Wedding: Yeah, exactly. How you're treated in that community is very important. The shared beliefs and values are some of the keys, and that's the common thing that always pops up in all the books I've read on community building. It's always shared beliefs, vision, goals, and a place where people work for the same thing. You all feel so connected because of that, and whether that's a shared belief system, or a shared vision or goal, you have to achieve something. You get drawn into being connected with people because they're all doing the same thing.

Kerry Guard: B2B isn't always the sexiest in taking something incredibly dry. You talked about Apple, and the way Apple's built its brand is the designer, company, and culture you want to be a part of. You put yourself on this pedestal like, “I'm a designer, and I've apple computer.” Apples are a great example of that. But for something a bit drier, such as a cloud-based tech that's very specific for developers or an IT department. It's this balancing act, and you need to build a community of thinking about the problem and vision you have as a company and the problem vision you're trying to solve and to bring people into that. But also, you got to let go of your product a little bit. This isn't about your product, the people you're trying to serve, or the problems you're trying to solve. And that feels tricky for the B2B community, especially those trickier tech audiences. What's your experience there?

Tom Wedding: I once ran a group for a cyber cybersecurity sales coach. It was a very interesting experience to build a community because, as you said, it's a little bit dry. You can't get too deep into desires or goals or visions with it too much because it does get a little bit confusing. There's one exercise that helps define that, why and that vision, which I call the seven layers deep. You find the initial why. You go seven layers deep by asking, “Why is that? Why does that exist? Why am I?” because we want to inspire people to have safer businesses, a very broad, very surface-level thing. And then you would go seven layers deep. Why should people want to have a safe business? Why would they want to have a safe business? Why does that matter? And then you go deeper and deeper, and edge, and as you go down this list, you're going to uncover some interesting things that you can use as that initial vision to draw people in and market feedback. You just have conversations with your current and current customers and do deep-dive interviews. What inspires you about our product apart from its obvious benefits and desire to use it? What vision would you say surrounding this product? And ask for ideas. It's a really interesting marketing concept that I wanted to try out once. I asked the consumer or the customer if you were selling my product, how would you market it? It's a very interesting question to ask because they're gonna think of all these weird ideas that you might not have otherwise thought of so, and then if you spread that out, over asking 50 people that same question, you're going to get some pretty interesting ideas to work with. You can use that same concept, but instead of asking you how to market it, you can say, “Hey, if you were in my shoes selling this product, how would you get people inspired by it? How would you get people drawn to a vision by it? What would that look like for you?”And then you'll get some ideas from those people as well. I think those two things, going seven layers, deep yourself, and then doing deep dive interviews with your current clients and customers and asking these questions, will uncover a deeper sense of why.

Kerry Guard: There's a clear path to success here from doing your homework and ensuring your billing and community for the right reasons, and you have a strong way of doing it. To begin, figuring out what platform it'd be on and building the community through joining other groups, creating a Facebook profile, LinkedIn profile, and joining groups to figure out how engaged the groups are and whether there's an opportunity to bring people over to a more engaging place. There are also email and ads you could also do in terms of driving people to your group; depending on what platform if you're going to be more on a chat platform, you might need a bit more of a grassroots plan, maybe some ads to go with that you're gonna probably be driving to a landing page. It will be more involved if you go into the slack channel versus the Facebook group. You have to have an engagement plan. Who's your host? Who will be in there day in and day out asking questions, keeping to the vision, keeping it focused? And then, who will create ambassadors to help continue those conversations when your host is not around? Along with what's your engagement plan verse from a group standpoint as well as an individual standpoint and happy to show up. There's clear stuff on how people can get started, which I love because I want people to feel inspired by this conversation and feel like they can do it versus being, “I want to go run away, not do this thing that sounds great and important.” But that’s a lot of work.

Tom Wedding: I think that's how I like to make a lot of times when I talk, just like sharing the house because I find many people talk about the why or what to do, but not how to do it. It's also important to share that house because it gives people clarity. Many people get overwhelmed and confused. I've got to build a community, but how's that possible? Some of those tangible things to do are very important, and I want to add to communities as a whole as well as keep this in mind: communities have existed since man existed. We survived in a tribe, hunting, sleeping, and living together, and that was the first thing we ever did to stay alive. And most of the time, if we're in isolation by ourselves, we would die because we're going to look after ourselves. Communities have existed forever. If you invest the time and the energy into building communities, it's never wasted. Because that community you've built can only amplify, it can't decrease like this, and it's very unlikely people will leave your community unless you do something stupid. But that's very unlikely of all the groups I've run. I've never had people go, and the group has increased in size. If you spend the time and energy building these communities, it's very valuable and powerful.

Kerry Guard: You've kicked up my brain, and I've got some ideas floating around. I will run this by my team to see what this could look like for us. I might come back to town and pick your brain as I start to unravel this, but it's super exciting, and I agree, as a community, it's incredibly important. We've been isolated for so long for the last few years trying to find our way back to each other and decide where we'll spend our time and in what capacity and be very intentional about that. Thank you for sharing. I have my people's first questions to give me a little bit more time to get to know you more, outside of being the entrepreneur you are. Are you ready?

Tom Wedding: Sure. Let's do it.

Kerry Guard: Okay. Have you picked up any new hobbies in the last two years?

Tom Wedding: I've been house-sitting, which I guess you could call a little hobby. I'm traveling around Australia doing some house sitting, but I always like doing weird and random things. It's fun.

Kerry Guard: House today. So, where throughout the country have you lived? And if you are sticking to the coast, or you go into the mountains? Where are you?

Tom Wedding: I was in Adelaide, then Sydney and Melbourne, and now up in Queensland, just traveling all over Australia, just house in and eventually do this overseas. Hopefully, it'd be cool.

Kerry Guard: Awesome. Where would you go and why if you could travel anywhere without border closings or red tape regarding COVID testing and vaccination cards?

Tom Wedding: I'd probably go to Germany because my sister currently lives there. So it will be cool to see her. And somewhere in Europe or Germany.

Kerry Guard: Awesome. Last question. I know you're a one-man show over there and your teams worldwide. You mentioned the Philippines a couple of times. If you could get together with your people and be in the same room and brainstorm and figure things out or just like hanging out and getting to know one another, what song would you want playing and why?

Tom Wedding: Oh, what song? I don't know. I'd probably say something funky and upbeat to get some good vibes. I'd love an event where I could just have all my people there because I haven't met them in person. It's very interesting.

Kerry Guard: Well, think about it, and you shoot me a song so I can add it to our playlists for people to feel the funk. Tom, it’s so good to hang out with you. Thank you for sharing your journey and your passion for communities.

Tom Wedding: Thank you for having me on. It was great to share.

Outro

And that was my conversation with Tom Wedding. Unfortunately, Tom is all over the map and is an entrepreneur at heart. He is off to doing something completely different from when we had this conversation. I don't have any follow-up with Tom. He is a very difficult person to find on the internet.

Tom, if you're listening, I hope you're doing awesome, and your new business is flourishing. I truly wish you all the best. Tom's message is still incredibly important and powerful in building communities, and I'm certainly inspired. I mentioned Aileen Casmano earlier as she has built a community of cybersecurity marketers. If you are a cybersecurity marketer and want to understand what being part of a community is all about, hers is a very special one to check out. For sure, you can visit cybersecuritymarketingsociety.com and join the conversation.

If you haven't listened to all eight episodes, skip back and check out some truly wonderful guests with thoughtful insights and stories. Season 13 is hot on his heels, coming to you in early October, be sure to subscribe and get all eight episodes as soon as they drop.