The Art of AI Content Creation with Cybersecurity Expert David Mundy

Overview:

In the final 2023 episode of "Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders," Kerry Guard and David Mundy, VP of Marketing at Dasera, explore the indispensability of AI in marketing. They delve into David's journey from cybersecurity startups to his role at Dasera, underscoring AI's pivotal role in content creation and competitive strategy. The conversation highlights how AI, particularly ChatGPT, revolutionizes marketing efficiency, enabling smaller teams like Dasera's to produce extensive, impactful content rapidly. This episode emphasizes the blend of AI's capabilities with human creativity, pushing marketing boundaries and fostering innovation. Additionally, David reflects on personal growth and the importance of family time, enriched by remote work flexibility. This insightful dialogue showcases AI's transformative impact on marketing strategies and the continuous interplay between technology advancement and human insight.

Transcript:

Kerry Guard [00:00:17]:

Welcome to the last episode of 2023 of Tea Time with tech marketing leaders. I'm so grateful you all are here. What a ride. I feel like January was just yesterday, but also like a century ago. It's been a year. It's been a year and I don't know about you all. Dave and I were just talking about this, but we are ready for the break and it's going to be glorious. But before we send you on a break, we want to get your wheels turning because why not in the quiet, the no meetings, you get to absorb and understand a bit better and contemplate what 2024 could hold for you.

Kerry Guard [00:00:58]:

And let me tell you, if AI has not been a topic of conversation for you in 2023, you might want to lean into this one and figure out what it means for you for 2024. It's not going anywhere. You all. It's not going anywhere. It's not going away. It's going to be good. This week, I have with me ending the year on a high is David Mindy. David, welcome back to the show.

David Mundy [00:01:24]:

Thank you very much for having me.

Kerry Guard [00:01:26]:

I'm so excited to have you. You were here with me two-ish years ago. You shared your story then. Give us a quick recap of where you were in 2021 when we last met, to where you are now.

David Mundy [00:01:42]:

Oh, man. Let's see. So I'm going to run it through my head real fast. So I was Divicloud from. So I've been in the cybersecurity startup arena for about eight, or nine years. So I was Divicloud for about three years. From 2017 to 2020, we were acquired by Rapid Seven. I was at Rapid Seven from about April 2020 to April 2021.

David Mundy [00:02:06]:

And I think when you and I chatted, I had just joined accuracy, which was an infrastructure as code, essentially cloud security for developers and builders. And I joined that startup. We got acquired in a year by Tenable, and then I stayed at Tenable for almost a year and jumped into a startup that I stayed in for 1011 months wasn't the best of fits. And then I jumped into where I am now for the last year at Decera, which is a small data security posture management startup. We just received our Series A in April and we have about 30 employees and competing in a very dense cybersecurity sector with a variety of competitors, and we're probably among the smallest in terms of employee size at the moment. But that's where I currently am.

Kerry Guard [00:03:04]:

I like how you said at the moment there because it could change, it will change. It'll be glorious. You definitely have an interesting story where it's this dichotomy of not staying at places very long, but also being in the startup world, which is sort of like par for the course. Right. So jumping around a lot, but also a lot of acquisitions and sometimes not in the right fit because you got to really jive with the founder to make it happen. And we're not all everybody's cup of tea. And that's okay. It's been this wild ride for you, but for where you are now.

Kerry Guard [00:03:43]:

To Sarah, the work you've been doing, the reason why I reached back out to you was because the work you're doing is I'm on the edge of my seat before we and I'm going to keep you all on the edge of your seat. Yeah, that just happened. Before we unpack what you got going on over there, talk about challenges you're currently facing, like what's the end of the year? It's Q four. Welcome to the show. Q four is hard for anybody, but for you in particular, David, what's hard for you right now?

David Mundy [00:04:13]:

Yeah, that's a brilliant question. I feel like we don't as marketing as we have a lot of marketing people that speak, I don't want to say they speak in blanket. A lot of people break it down. Right. It's part of our job to break down target markets, but we tend to take marketing holistically. But there is this dichotomy of startups versus mid-sized enterprise companies versus do you work for a marketing agency? Versus and there's a lot of different ways to go about it. So my challenges might be different than a lot of other people's challenges that aren't familiar with the startup space and we're just gluttons for punishment anybody starting a company or working in a startup world. But man challenges all of them.

David Mundy [00:04:54]:

Like, name them. So product market fits a lot of competitors that just immediately jumped into the data security space, and categorization. So data security, for instance, could be encryption masking specific security on that level. Then you have a kind of the data governance issue, which is like the managing and cataloging of data and data lineage. We kind of fit right in the middle of discovering all the data and then creating compliance policies on top of it. So long story short, categorizing and really pushing out why we are the best data security solution in a sea of different product focuses in data security. You can almost think like soft drinks are like we have a new soft drink, but now we have to show why we're better than Pepsi and Coke there, which might satisfy other people's needs or cravings. We have employee count, right? I have three brilliant, brilliant people underneath me that all cover different parts of the funnel.

David Mundy [00:05:57]:

I have my brand and project management and communications genius Jackie, who's worked with me for the last ten years at every company, graciously decides to come with me as I beggar. I have my events genius, 20, who handles kind of all of the events and breaks a little bit more into the demand gen for me on the email side. And then I have my SDR leader who really encompasses the bottom of the funnel for me and bridges that. But I mean, that's three of us building out essentially a company, right? We hired a sales leader in, was it probably in June? So just we had to build up everything from the ground up, more or less from life. Yeah. So we started a seed round, we got Series A in April, and we have literally just been building this piece by piece by piece. So we have, of course, market trust that we need to build and validation. We have leads we need to build and generate, turn them into meetings.

David Mundy [00:06:57]:

Value propositions really get us from product-market fit into go-to market fit, taking all the signals back from our customers. And we need to produce content of various natures to prove out our position, validate our permissions as to why we can help any company, from Wells Fargo to a health tech company, why we can help them solve their data security and data governance needs. So you name a marketing problem, I would probably imagine we have it in some capacity, but thus is the beauty of working in the startup environment, right? You get to kind of tackle them. Ask me to scale a business from 50 million to a billion, and I'll tell you to hire someone else because that's definitely not my skill set.

Kerry Guard [00:07:47]:

You are the marketing startup king over there, where it is sort of your go house, your go-to of you got no one, you're going to hire me, I'm going to get you started and on the right trajectory. It seems to be your calling and your career, and it's not a career for everyone and quite a unique place to be in terms of a skill set. So hats off to you for braving the world of startups, especially in the cybersecurity space, especially in the dense, competitive cybersecurity space. I do have a question because you mentioned the world where there's a lot of new startups sort of coming on the scene and there's a lot of competition. And I know, to your point, we're all in sort of the same bucket of challenges, and one of them being competition. Just because of the nature of everybody trying to figure out the cybersecurity world, it's tough out there. I have this real quick story because this sort of blew my mind. Been in the cybersecurity space now for a couple of years.

Kerry Guard [00:08:53]:

Our team is well-versed in what to look for in bad actors. But this is an email that I took a pause on. I felt like I'd seen them all and I saw this one come through and I was like, I'm pretty sure this is a scam, but, wow. So they claimed that they were from Salesforce, that we owed them $12,000, and the email looked completely legit, except for their email address. That was very hard to spot unless you knew to look for it, which thankfully I did. But it was just like, this moment of this is happening, it is getting scary out there of how good this is getting.

David Mundy [00:09:40]:

Good old fishing, spear fishing tactics. Yeah, I remember when that was an important thing to bring up, right? I mean, a little bit outside of the scope of the problems we solve directly. But when I worked at Serafic before this, phishing was solving the phishing problem or mitigating the phishing problem internally, we were. Browser security was one of our sticking points there from a value perspective. But when I was at tenable, and mind you, I've been in cybersecurity for years at this point. We had gone to AWS reinvent, right, the Big AWs conference in Vegas. And I had just been acquired by them. I had met Amit Jorin, who's the CEO there once or twice, and I got a text from him my first day in Vegas, and it was a text from Amit, and it said, or a meet, and it said, I need you to buy me gift cards.

David Mundy [00:10:35]:

Mind you, this is 2000. What? This is 2021, right? It was like the first right when everything started opening back up and I was like, oh, man, I'm moving fast, right? He knows I'm in AWS. They know I'm in Vegas on the text message, hey, you're in Vegas. I'm going to be at this event. Can you stop by and get some gift cards and send it to me here? And I was like, yeah. I'm like, what do you need? How much? And I was like, oh, God, I'm getting fished right now. And I sent it to our CISO at Sennable, and then I was like, but I responded. And in that quick, brief, like, moving fast, I still responded to the person, right? And then obviously reported it, blocked the number, and did all that stuff afterward, they have taken care of it.

David Mundy [00:11:15]:

But I mean, you think about it, right? Me being in the cybersecurity, I still fell for it. For a brief instance, imagine your older generations of people that get those emails, like, hey, you owe your Verizon customer, you owe us $500, send it now, and we're going to terminate your service, right? And then you have the subject matter of our conversation, maybe in a different scope, but you look at AI and we're going to be talking about it from the benefits of what it can on a business side. But if you think about bad actors and the way that they're going to be using AI moving forward, like take the hyper-personalization of any kind of phishing email or text, and then the localization and then being able to scrounge around your information from social media everywhere instantaneously and then send that directly to you who might be in the know and be, your radar is up. But think about all the people who aren't right, and think about the older people, generations who aren't using or the younger generations who might not be in the know of how to do this. You're going to see a lot.

Kerry Guard [00:12:15]:

I got really lucky because the person who received the email is my executive assistant and she usually pays these kinds of bills for me, but because of the amount that they were asking for, she was like, yes, I just wanted to double check this with you. And I was like, I'm really glad you double-checked this with me because.

David Mundy [00:12:35]:

This is, we get them, I would say probably on average, because we have slack channels now internally that are dedicated to these funny ones and send them to the right people in our company, even here at Decera. But I would say on average, all of us in the companies, about 30 of us in the company, give or take probably about four to five times a month via text or via email.

Kerry Guard [00:12:58]:

It feels low or small.

David Mundy [00:13:00]:

I mean, can you imagine the bigger companies?

Kerry Guard [00:13:04]:

It's true. It's wild. But my point is my original question that I sort of didn't get to because I was too busy just commiserating around how AI is going to both help us and not help us. But going back to what I wanted to ask, which was in terms of your challenge and being in this really dense environment of all these cybersecurity companies popping up because we're all facing the same threats and trying to figure out how to mitigate them, is how are you? And I think this is going to lend nicely into our conversation. So I might be setting us up here, but how are you thinking about differentiating Decera? First, from just to your point, the product market fit, is it just focusing on the clear feature differentiators, what's it for you? Tough one.

David Mundy [00:13:53]:

A good question. Yeah. And a tough question. Right. I would say there's a variety of nuances to the answer of how do you prop yourself. How do you rise above the attention economy? Right. How do you rise up in the attention economy while rising up against your competitors? Right. So just to give a little bit of context, I would say probably less than 5% of the market has any kind of data security. So data security, posture management, if you like Gartner, it's one of their brilliant archetypes.

David Mundy [00:14:23]:

I like Gartner, if anyone's, but I don't want to come up. But archetypes, right? And they usually set market standards and people build into those market standards because they generally become, again, the standard of the market. Right. So data security, posture management, market share is probably less than 5%. We probably have, I would say, 1314 direct competitors and some whales in there that have made acquisitions or are building their own functionality, just like what we do specifically. We're very new too, right? I mean, the category was coined mid-last year and we've been building up, I would say the ARR for exactly what we do. Annual recurring revenue for exactly what we do for all the entire competitive space is probably less than like 30 million for all companies, 30, 40 million.

David Mundy [00:15:19]:

So it's very new. So when we look at competitors, just to answer your question, and how do we differentiate ourselves? One, our biggest competitor is companies not prioritizing the need. Yet we're very much attached to companies using data as a business driver. So obviously this will hit AI from a different scope. Now that typically has meant aggregating their data to be able to use your Netflix, your Nikes, any bank of America's, any of those companies, and being able to use that data and give access for everybody to have access to those crown jewels, that aggregate of data, so they know, whatever, build specific applications, better understand their customers, create a better customer experience, create a better digital experience, whatever, but be able to aggregate that data, overlay analytics on top of it, and truly understand and use that data as a business driver. Well, over the last year and moving into 2024, what we're going to see is using that as a business driver is also going to include them using that as building their own internal and external AI applications. But they're still going to have to aggregate their data. But back to answering your question, trying not to be as verbose as I typically am, but trying to answer your question, our biggest competitor is not being prioritized yet in the market.

David Mundy [00:16:44]:

That's changing rapidly now, fortunately.

Kerry Guard [00:16:47]:

So getting out front. Yeah, exactly.

David Mundy [00:16:49]:

And then, yeah, you have kind of like DSP analyst firms that tend to shape the structure of the market. Right. So even though we have features that extend beyond what they've categorized as DSPM, DSPM is really your discovery of data, your classification of data. You're overlaying priority compliances on top, compliance through some kind of policy engine on top of the data, and then access management. Right. Being who can access what data and when. Right. And that's essentially what DSPM is, more or less.

David Mundy [00:17:23]:

Well, our features extend beyond that. A lot of our competitors extend beyond that, too. So when we think about it, we go to market with the value we can bring. Mind you, if there's only a 4% market share, there's a big, wide-open ICP out there. And though we are horizontal, across all verticals, we have our specific niches. Right, but it's a combination, right? It's a combination of features and functionality. It's a combination of educating the market and helping the market catch up.

David Mundy [00:17:52]:

And that's what we're directly competing with some of our competitors are.

Kerry Guard [00:17:56]:

So you're ahead of the game educating.

David Mundy [00:17:58]:

And teaching the market. And this will bleed into kind of the AI conversation, educating the market as fast as possible, convincing them and building trust in the market to understand what we do and how we're solving the problem, and why that's better than any other solution they have available right now. And even though you can use the word commoditized, the discovery classification, the DSPM function is commoditized within the competitors that do DSPM. But we all do things better and differently in different aspects. Right, like data usage and query analysis and how people are fundamentally using the data. That's where we excel. Some companies have their access and their data access management and how deep they can go and all the way into third party access and being able to map where that data is coming from and how they're using, that's awesome. They can do that.

David Mundy [00:18:46]:

We can't do that as well. Right? So things like that. But another portion of that, which I think people overlook is, again, time to market, right? How fast can we go and convince the market that our message is so our marketing becomes part of our differentiator and then our general support? Right. The people we've beat out competitors in deals when our product probably wasn't as good specifically for what they need. But because we went to their campus, we met with them multiple times face to face, this is a pretty big company, and met with them face to face. And our CTO co-founder and our solutions engineers and our customer support were with them answering questions day or night, always, and just taking that white glove support level. And so differentiators and value come, I think, in a package of sorts.

Kerry Guard [00:19:40]:

I love that because I feel like while SaaS is all well and good, having that customer support and knowing there's a person or people behind it makes such a world of difference. I actually switched platforms for this very reason. I'm going to just name names because that's just where it's just easier. So I was on gusto for payroll for a long time, and they didn't do HR services, they didn't do benefits or any of that. And so I switched to Zenefits because Zenfits was able to be, they built their HR piece first and then added payroll versus the other way around. And so I jumped, shipped to zenefits, and said, oh, if I can have it all in one place, that sounds great. But their customer service was so painful. And so when Gusto added the HR piece, I was like, whoa, we're back.

Kerry Guard [00:20:42]:

We're back to that. Because even though I may have paid a little and definitely know going from one platform to another is so hard when you have to migrate all of your information over, it matters that when I have a problem, I can get a hold of a person and they can tell me what to do about it, or even better, take care of it for me. So the fact that you had people showing up on campuses and showing them the way of how, especially in cybersecurity, where it's such a trusting environment that you have to create, like, wow, yes, that goes such a long, such a long way and there's a benefit to there.

David Mundy [00:21:23]:

I feel like I have to name names too, because I legitimately won't even hire a vendor or any third party unless and I treat them again. We have a small team, so when I hire, it's usually an extension of my team and I want them to work with me like they are a part of my team. If they can't do that, understandable. But, you know, don't have the budget or the money to go out and be hiring McKinsey to give me a market, but you know what I mean? So I'll give you an example. There's a company called Ranked AI and for my SEO needs, right, and it's like $99 a month for how I need it right now. They are perfect value for somebody who's building. Right? Like, I wouldn't suggest tenable to go bring a ranked AI in, right, or mid-sized companies or anything like that. But for a startup community, yeah.

David Mundy [00:22:11]:

Look, they'll help me write and formulate some of the content in the blog post. They focus on the keywords, make sure that everything we're writing is keyword-appropriate. They help me rate our keywords, they give me all the analytics tools I know to know where we rank, how we rank against certain competitors, how we rank on keywords in a beautiful platform. They email me constantly and keep me updated with Google’s latest algorithm or Bings or whatever else I'm curious about. And they always answer my questions and they're always on top of it. And it's very responsive and I'm like, it's insane.

Kerry Guard [00:22:42]:

Can't beat that.

David Mundy [00:22:43]:

I know.

Kerry Guard [00:22:44]:

Can't beat the responsiveness, especially in the world of so much being just, I feel like the world's heading back in that direction. We're going to get into this. This is going to be good. Okay, so let's dive in. So AI started in 2022. Chat GBT came out and I got in contact with you specifically, David, because the content you were producing, I was floored just between the visuals and the production of it. I was like, I know you join startups, you run them accordingly. You're always a small team.

Kerry Guard [00:23:19]:

How on earth are you producing this level of content? And so I asked you to be on the show. So I'm grateful that you're here back with us. Let's talk about how AI made a first impression on you, though. Where did it all begin?

David Mundy [00:23:31]:

Yeah, so I've been using generative AI, specifically chat GBT four now, which is still my favorite, but I've used Claude and a few others more recently. But I've been using it since about December of last year, and I immediately researched and looked into as much as I could about how to use it and functionality, and also thought it was a bit gimmicky at first, which I think it's still in our field. There's still a sector of people, particularly in product marketing, that think it's a bit gimmicky, right, or not as useful as a tool as now I think it is. I started using it and started training it. And remember, chat GB three was a bit more complex as far as training goes, because the memory time was minimal, right? So I would share Decera's value proposition for what it was at the time and I would to. At the time we were focused on more data governance and data security. So I started maneuvering and querying and prompting, like, how can I change this message to focus more on security folks from our value and change it here? And then you would get like three or four prompts in queries in trying to manipulate and create the right data feedback, and it would already forget what the initial prompt was. So it became frustrating, right? But it also became a challenge and it became a pretty good challenge.

David Mundy [00:25:03]:

And then I would say probably around March, or April is when I think 3.5 came out. I think four might have come out at that time too, 3.5 or four. But that's when my level of being able to, and I'm no better than anybody else, but my level of querying and prompting took a different turn and I began to formulate a plan and understand how I was going to use it, right? And a combination of tools and then people to get it done. And I understood the differences of what it was. Right. Whereas I started off with, holy shit, sorry for the language, holy. I have this tool where I can just say, write me a white paper on the benefits of DSPM as opposed to data loss prevention.

David Mundy [00:25:48]:

And I got nothing. It was terrible. It was just a horrible, it gave me nothing right, nothing I could use. It was very abstract and broad. And I was like, all right. So that's how I started off. It was just nothing useful. And I understood why people were badmouthing Chachi Bt as like a gimmicky tool.

David Mundy [00:26:03]:

But then I started digging in and I started saying, okay, well, first of all, fundamentally, you have to understand your product, right? You have to understand your market, you have to understand your product, you have to understand your value, and you have to understand, let's say, the topic of, and we'll focus just for content on this topic of the content that you want to produce. Right? You have to have that understanding again. You're never going to be able to go to chat, GBT, or any of them, at least anytime in the near future, and say, create me this in a way that is engaging and will actually do anything for your bottom line relative to any kind of ROI. Content brings your company right, or your position. So I started querying outlines at first with, and at first I started training it with specific data. So I started bringing in, I first started using it with our PR agency, actually and that's how I wanted to use it. I wanted to get in, out ahead in the media, so we would get these journalist requests or editor requests from your dark readings, your SC medias, et cetera. And then I trained my BT to be my boss.

David Mundy [00:27:15]:

Hurry. And based on content that he's written, based on certain viewpoints he has and topics that he focuses on, and opinions that he has. And I started training it on that. I trained it on Decera's value proposition. Who Decera's. What's Desera's like in the market, what the market currently thinks, what we're doing? And then I would answer these questions. And if you go on our site and you look at our, in the news, you can see everything from like HuffPost to Bloomberg to Kiplinger to dark reading and all that.

David Mundy [00:27:43]:

And I would overlay and answer these questions as if I was Ani Chadhari, and then I would go through the questions and overlay that with Grammarly. So I would copy and paste the answers into a document.

Kerry Guard [00:27:55]:

Hold on. You are, one, giving our game away, and two, going so fast. I want people to truly understand the magic of what it is that you've done because you and I had multiple conversations before I even started testing this, and it's actually working. And I'm going to get into that. But let's back up for a second because one of the things you talked about in the very beginning was that it wasn't working.

David Mundy [00:28:18]:

Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:28:19]:

And most people at that point when it's not working would just throw their hands up in the air and be like, screw this. I'm not going to keep going. It's not doing what I needed to do. And I got better things to do. So it seems like there was this sort of nag for you, this thing at the back of your head that was like, don't give up on this just yet. What made you go deeper? What was that question you were sort of asking yourself of like, this should do the thing I want it to do, and I'm convinced it can do it?

David Mundy [00:28:53]:

Yeah. Because you look at what people currently do, and this is kind of like a funny argument against the naysayers, even to this today, but you look at what people do to research when they're writing any kind of, let's focus on like a white paper for right now, when they're writing a white paper. And let's say it's a thought leadership piece where you're going to need some sort of cited research in the white paper, the report you're building and to eventually build up the thought leadership in your company. And I thought, all right, so what do we normally do in those circumstances? Right. Normally I spend six to seven weeks if it's me, or maybe I hire it out and spend 2030, $40,000 depending on the length and what the report is about.

Kerry Guard [00:29:41]:

Do you have money or do you have time?

David Mundy [00:29:43]:

Exactly right. And you're always weighing those two things, right? That fast-forward to the end chat. GPT solves both of those problems. Right. But back to where we're at now, I would spend what, probably four to six weeks compiling the research, getting the topics, writing the outline, getting approval on the outline, right? From some of my subject matter experts internally, then going back or even externally, depending on what the subject matter was, then going back, filling out the outline, going back and getting that feedback, and then actually writing the first draft, getting that verified and checked. And then it's this back-and-forth thing of constantly writing feedback, writing feedback, writing feedback, and then producing the final result and then getting that checked off. And now you're.

David Mundy [00:30:31]:

How many weeks in and how much time, how much other things could I have been doing at that time? How much roi? Because now you got to build the plan as well. So you can't just write content, put it on your website, and expect it to do anything. Now there has to be a plan.

Kerry Guard [00:30:44]:

If you build it, they will not come.

David Mundy [00:30:46]:

They will not come, especially not now. So you need the webinar, you need the blog post. Is it a theme for an event? You need the partners or any kind of market influencers sharing it as well. You need customers or other people quoted in it that are sharing it. And you need to build the whole plan for it as well. Then once you get it finished, well, now you got to get it designed. So now you send it to a designer, or if you're fortunate enough to have one in-house, great. Still going to take them a week plus.

David Mundy [00:31:13]:

And I know the arguments can be on the time frame, so depending what.

Kerry Guard [00:31:16]:

But it's also the argument of the carpet for the horse, the content or the design or the design, and then the content, like you write all this gorgeous content, but then you got to fit it into a way that people can actually digest it.

David Mundy [00:31:27]:

Exactly. And then you need internal design charts and all that. And then you need, obviously the COVID design and all that. Because I am someone who very much believes design is important and can help tell the story, accentuate the story, and sometimes better the story. So all of that takes on average, and we can debate that, but on average, let's say four to six weeks. Right?

Kerry Guard [00:31:49]:

In your experience?

David Mundy [00:31:50]:

In my experience. So I was like, all right, I'm listening to all of or reading all this material on what chat GPT is supposedly able to do. I'm obviously not getting it right. So that's why I dug in. I'm like, there's got to be a way. It's 100% a user error at this point, which is what I emailed you when I didn't get on when I didn't join the time. Right. Definitely probably a user error.

David Mundy [00:32:13]:

Let me figure it out. And then I read an article on query and prompt analysis. Right, sorry. Query and prompting. And query analysis is what we do, query and prompting and how you need to train the data model, how AI works in general, and then for using the LLM, how you need to train it with your own data and then build off queries and prompts, similar as you would do to any kind of like boolean search functionality with Google, Bing, what have you, and instead of using Google search to find sources to where I need to go and then digest the information, how can I use chat GPT to pull that extreme amount of information to me immediately through prompts? So what I did was just so.

Kerry Guard [00:33:04]:

That we have this and maybe we need to go find it, and that's fine, but do you remember where you read that article about?

David Mundy [00:33:12]:

No, I was actually trying to find it before this, and I can't remember what that initial article was, but I will try to find it after this.

Kerry Guard [00:33:18]:

That'd be great. I'd love to drop it in the comments for people because I think this is the big misdemeanor is we think one. It remind me, and I know that there were like many versions ahead. Now, I think it's like, what, Chachi TV four something, four and a half. So it's definitely come a long way. When it was first launched, it only captured the Internet up to 2021. It was way out of date. And so no wonder why it wasn't working.

Kerry Guard [00:33:48]:

So there was this misdemeanor of that. It was just a basic search engine. But what you discovered, and I think what's so important here, why I want to pause for a second, is that it is a search engine when you build the data for it to search.

David Mundy [00:34:08]:

Yes. But you got to think of it like the fundamental purpose of the Internet, right? It's the backbone of all of these different, let's say, digital stores, digital environments where that's more pockets of information. So you go on and you use Google to rapidly navigate to those sources. So instead of having to, and this is redundant, I know, but just to kind of speed up to what chat GBT did in my thought process here. So instead of me know, I need Verizon's data breach report to show data breaches in healthcare to help whatever white paper I'm building. Well, now I have to Google Verizon's data breach report. I have to find the right report, I have to pull the report, I have to read the report, and then I have to take that information out, right? Well, now, with chat GBT, I could essentially prompt and pull that obviously not recent report, right? Because it only went up to January 2022 at the time. And then I pulled that information out, and then now I would have that breach information immediately.

David Mundy [00:35:08]:

So it actually wiped off. It wiped off. That's kind of what Google Bard does now. If you attach it to your. If you attach it to your Google search, Bard will immediately pull the information out without you having to actual search. So it just becomes an engine, like a knowledge engine. Now, there's no search really search involved, but what I found almost immediately, once I realized it was user error, was even though the limitations of the knowledge it was sharing or scraping the Internet, was from January 2022, all of my current information that I started training it on, I could interweave that information there, right? So I could understand my value proposition. Like, it didn't know what data security posture management was, because that was coined in June 2022.

David Mundy [00:35:52]:

But I could teach it what it was, and it started understanding what it was, right? And DSPM became like, was data security protection management, something like that. Just like a word off. And then it started the repeatability of understanding that was posture management and what we do and the differences between that.

Kerry Guard [00:36:08]:

So let's get a little obnoxious here because I think for so many people who sort of ditched the AI train, which I was one of those people until I talked to you, I was like, this isn't working. I can't do this. No. And then I talked to you and I was like, oh, maybe. And I think the big thing for me at that moment was the fact that I could put data into it. So it wasn't just about extracting the data, but it was actually feeding it. Right? So here's an example. My coach is listening, and I'm about to give the game away.

Kerry Guard [00:36:41]:

And that's okay. I love you, Tod. So I work with my coach now, and I help him on his marketing efforts. And one of the things he asked me to do was to take his latest LinkedIn post, which was about the Uber CEO and that TV show super pumped, and write a newsletter about the leadership qualities in regards to what had happened with that CEO and the downfall, right? The qualities he had until he didn't have them. I had never seen the show and now I have to write a newsletter in relation to Tod's teachings around this. I was like, I don't know where to begin. So what I did was, in true David Mundy fashion, I took all of my coach’s LinkedIn posts for the last, I don't know, a few months, and I copied and pasted them into chat GBT. I didn't know this was possible.

Kerry Guard [00:37:35]:

I think this is really important for people. I didn't know that I could tell chat GPT hey, I'm just going to give you a bunch of information. Don't do anything with it yet. It's going to be okay. And I'm going to tell you what need right. That was so such a differentiator for me because with Google you just type in certain keywords to extract data. You can't feed it like I'm feeding Chat GPT my coach's posts. And then I said, hey, do you know this movie super pumped that launched at whatever time? And Chat GPT said, yes, I'm aware.

Kerry Guard [00:38:17]:

And here's the synopsis of it. I said, great, here's what I need you to do. And I basically prompted it on writing this newsletter in Todd's voice and it helped me write a draft. Now, I had to go back over it, but the fact that I got a seven point list of great leadership in Todd's teachings against this TV show was mind-boggling. And it's because I took a lot of what you're saying and executed on it. So yes, Chachi Bt learns through trial and error. Iksta that 100 agree. That's why people were so disappointed.

Kerry Guard [00:38:57]:

This is exactly what we're talking about. You can't take it at face value. You have to train it. And you said that multiple times, David, about training it. And I just wanted to give a clear example to Ix's point on what it means to train this thing. But you can do it quickly. It didn't take me a lot of time to drop a bunch of posts in there and say, this is what Tod sounds like and this is what.

David Mundy [00:39:22]:

He oh, sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. So once you figured that out, play the I'll ask you a question. So once you figured that part out, right? It's like, okay, now I'm starting to understand the capabilities of what it can't do. And I imagine we're still in like three, or if we got enough to chat to bd four. That just gives you.

Kerry Guard [00:39:42]:

I'm still working in free.

David Mundy [00:39:43]:

Yeah, there you go. So the next part of that, what was the next challenge that you saw? Right. And maybe it's rhetorical and I can answer, or maybe you want to answer, but once you figured out the capabilities, what was the next challenge for you?

Kerry Guard [00:39:57]:

Well, I couldn't take the answer at face value because it wasn't totally right. One, it was talking in third person and it was a newsletter, and I needed to talk in first person. And initially, I started to rewrite it, copied and pasted the response. I put it in Google Docs and I started to rewrite it and I was like, I wonder. And I went back to chat GBT and I said, rewrite this in first person. This is a newsletter, and give me a summary. And I forgot exactly what I said, but I wanted a summary and I wanted it to end better. So I was like, help me intro this and outro this better.

Kerry Guard [00:40:35]:

And it did. So that was sort of my first hurdle of not trying to immediately go and fix it myself, but actually ask chat GPT to do what I wanted it to do.

David Mundy [00:40:49]:

And you started to realize that prompting and querying became the number one function that you needed to learn in order to receive the best, let's say, product from chat GPT. Now, there's a tool that I was like, so how do I get better at prompting? And I think intuitively, we all think we can do that, especially at levels of our careers where we're at. Right. How hard is it to ask a question? Right. How hard is it? And then, well, fundamentally hard, because you have to ask the right questions repeatedly in a way that you're speaking to somebody that works for you or works above you, whatever, whoever you're trying to pull information out, you have to ask this model. And it goes so against the grain of how we act with kind of machine or software that we have to just attune our brain to like, all right, I can actually treat this thing like an employee, right? And I can ask it or subject matter expert, and I need to prompt it in very specific ways, repeatedly, and prompt it in a way that it gets whatever story I'm trying to tell out in the narrative in the way that I need to tell it.

Kerry Guard [00:41:56]:

Yeah. And I found that if you did it in chunks. Like I wasn't trying to do that all in one go. Right? So the first thing I said was turn this into first person. And I said I need an outro to introduce the topic and I need a quote by the, I forgot the character's name or the Uber CEO's name, but I said I need a quote by Travis to start this thing. Need. So I started to prompt it, but I didn't try and do it all. I think that was one mistake I started making early on, is I tried to get it all out in the first question in multiple questions versus iterating on it.

David Mundy [00:42:35]:

Yeah, I agree. And so when I write anything now, and I kind of want to go back to a couple of things, but I'll jump in ahead. But when I write anything now, it's usually outlines and I have it build outline based on the data. And then to your point, I query it. And if not, like necessarily how I'm framing it, but really the content to start with. And then I break that down into outline chunks of whatever, whether it's a blog post, whether it's a slide deck, whether it's a datasheet, whether it's a white paper, what have you. I break it out into an initially in an outline, and then I start affecting changes in the outline itself to get it to where I think the outline is going to tell the right story. And then I start filling out the pieces with our data using pulling in chat GBT with research, and then build transitions in between section one and section two.

David Mundy [00:43:24]:

And then start building that out that way. And then just to gather another piece of the puzzle. What I recommend for everybody is I use Grammarly. I'm a Grammarly nerd one because my editing are terrible. So I will then take that document, I'll put it into we use Google, right? So Google Docs. And then with Grammarly, right, you've set your goals, right? What's your domain, right? Are you creating a business or academic general? Is it email? Is it casual? Is it creative? What's the intent? What audience are you going for? What's the formality? And you've set all that up in Grammarly. And then now you take the tone of your overall paper and you affect change through Grammarly. Not only are you making it grammatically correct, but the way that you're speaking and the way that the paragraphs and the sentences are aligned.

David Mundy [00:44:09]:

Right. And avoid any kind of passive content, of course. But you can also talk to the audience directly, how you want to talk to the audience, and that shifts. That keeps the subject matter in there, right? It keeps the subject in there and the relative content, but it shifts the way that you explain it based upon how you want to speak into what audience you're speaking to, as well as obviously editing all the grammar as well.

Kerry Guard [00:44:37]:

I do want to say one thing about Grammarly because I'm a big fan. I was convinced to start using it earlier this year, and I actually thought that people would think my LinkedIn was taken over by somebody because it was such a drastic change in the way that it was actually, like, less errors and grammatically correct that this couldn't possibly be. Carrie, I do want to say, though, it's not always right, because your voice or what you bring to the table does matter. And so if you're reading it out loud and it doesn't feel right, there's something to that. And so two things about that. One is, I love what you're saying about chat GBT. Grammatically, it's not always correct. So pumping it into a Grammarly great idea and bringing that human element back into it is by using your own voice to reread it is a wonderful way to make sure that you're not losing that human element between both of those things.

Kerry Guard [00:45:38]:

I want to break down that outline piece because I think so many of us are jumping the gun and skipping right to the end of using chat GBT versus thinking about what it is we're even writing about. So walk me through. Do you just do a normal outline, like, as if you were to write a piece of content, or do you approach it differently because you know you're going to use AI to help you write it?

David Mundy [00:46:03]:

Yeah, I mean, just again, to fast forward this in specific roles, I probably wouldn't even hire anybody that doesn't have a familiarity with any kind of generative AI and is not using that at this point, especially in the startup world. So everything that I write and produce is generally going to have some kind of LLM component or generative AI component behind it. And I can give a couple of examples of why from an outline perspective and, like, the human element, if I can back up a step. It's like a joke at Decera, from the CEO all the way down to the sales team. Like, they tease me about chat GBT all the time, and it's now come to have this. Chat GBT almost has this negative or silly connotation of cheating in some way, not being authentic, and being too easy at the same time. So it actually becomes paradoxical. Right.

David Mundy [00:46:55]:

And I've had to explain a multitude of times about how and why it works for us internally. Externally. I've been in a multitude of debates, right? Surprisingly, with predominantly marketing peers, most of whom are in product marketing and people I've worked with or people that I'm connected to or friends with. But I feel like they're particularly sensitive with the evolution of generative AI, right? But in the broad scheme of things, we have to look at it like what calculators did for math generative AI going to do for just about every other subject. And there's a great analogy that comes to mind when I think about Paul Bunyan, right? That legendary American lumberjack, right? You got Paul, this giant of a man. He's got his axe, and he's just a master at his craft, and he's the go-to guy when you want trees cut down, right, and unbeatable with skill and speed of cutting down trees. And then a guy brings a new challenge to him. He's got this machine, and the machine has been built to cut down trees, and it's faster and it's more efficient than any human.

David Mundy [00:47:56]:

So what does Paul do? He competes against it, right? And we know the story, right? And he takes on this machine and this dramatic showdown of man versus tech. And Paul breaks records, right? He gives it his all, but the machine doesn't tire, and the machine wins. And that's a powerful metaphor for what we're seeing in the marketing world today, right? Traditional methods, like relying solely on human creativity and manual processes are dramatically being challenged by AI technologies like the chat GPT. That. And, you know, I think Paul Bunyan was an allegory for Industrial Revolution, right? And the broader theme of the encroachment of industrialization on traditional ways of life. But we're seeing that repeat again, right? So product marketers are, and people in general, not just product. I'm picking on product marketers right now. I have been one before.

David Mundy [00:48:46]:

But just like Paul, these marketing people have a choice now. They can view AI as a threat, a machine that might outperform them and thus work to market publicly against the use of these tools and LinkedIn and Twitter and where else have you and downplay them? Or they can see it as a valuable tool, which is what eventually, inevitably, I did and you did as well, and something that can enhance our abilities. And I want to really hone in on that because the human element and the creativity, and you use it as an enhancement tool. Again, you still have to understand your product. You still have to understand the market. You still have to be a marketing brain, right, and have the expertise. And then once you figure out the ability to prompt and how you can feed and train the data to give you the results you need, so that, let's say, get you 70% of the way there, 60% of the way there, the outline, and then building the outline incrementally, then using as that enhancement tool, you can push the boundaries of what you can do in marketing. And honestly, I would say our team is probably pushing out, and if you take like a team at a bigger company that's not using any generative AI, our team is probably pushing out the equivalent, if not more, from a content perspective.

David Mundy [00:49:59]:

I mean, we have blog posts, we average two to three a week. White papers, we average two to three a quarter. Website content, two pages, data sheets, sales decks, emails, press releases, social media content, trend jacking responses to the media, responses to journalist inquiries, I mean, all of that. And we do that consistently across the board, right? And we have content-specific goals, and we take feedback, and we have our subject matter experts look at it, and we make sure we're not just using chat GBT to create all of the content, right? The human element, all of that has either been prompted into it, we're also editing it ourselves and making sure it's our voice. We're making sure because everybody's complaining about plagiarism. I haven't seen one piece. I put it through Grammarly's plagiarism check. Not one piece has ever been.

David Mundy [00:50:45]:

I mean, they have like the 1% where like five generic words are considered plagiarism. But other than that, it passes the test. We passed any of the AI checks as well, because again, you're prompting piece by piece, and you're creating from the outline, not just one holistic piece there. And that's generally the product we've been able to create. And again, we would not be where we are today as a company without being able to utilize this tool for some of the successes we've had.

Kerry Guard [00:51:15]:

I think that it's such an important point you're making, David, that I want to make sure that if you take nothing away from the conversation, it's this. So, a quick story. I was a photography major. I went to school at Drexel University for photography back in the early 2000s, before digital. So all these photographs back here were taken on film, four x five pieces of film. And I was determined to print them in a dark room on silver. And my professors were like, they got to be big and they got to be on this gorgeous paper that's not reflective. And I'm sorry, but you got to scan them in digitally and print them that way.

Kerry Guard [00:52:06]:

I could not have gotten these photographs the way that they are in a non-digital world, much to my dismay, believe me. But I had to understand how photography works at its core, in terms of light and f stops and speed. And I got the beautiful way to play with the billows to get the right depth of field and all of that fun jazz because I was fancy and went to school for it. And then I could take it to digital in a way that no one else could because I had the fundamentals down right. And I think that's what we're trying to say here, is like, this is not out to replace anybody. This is a tool to help you do what you do faster and better than anybody else because you understand the fundamentals. You're not trying to skip steps. You're trying to figure out how this thing can make you do what you do even so much better because the sky is the limit now.

Kerry Guard [00:53:07]:

You can take these photographs and blow them up and make them big and put them on paper that wasn't even possible before and make it feel totally different and build a whole new medium. Right? So, I think that's so important. AI is not here to replace us, especially when it's a craft that we've done for so long. It's here to help us do it that much better. And I got to tell you, it does take a finesse. I didn't just produce this content for my coach and then hand it off to him and say, here, you. I just like you do, David. We had to do the due diligence to say, are we plagiarizing? Is this grammatically correct? Does this sound human and thoughtful and intentional? But at least the data and the information is already there for us to then play with so we don't have to do all of the research to begin with to get to 70% to then make it to the 90.

Kerry Guard [00:54:06]:

And that was just such, like, the aha. Moment for me, as well as the fact that I could bring in the data myself. That just sort of boggled my mind. So when I wrote the content for my coach, it was in his voice. It sounds like him. It's so crazy that it was a little over the top, so I had to tone it down a little bit. But finally, I could write because I'm not him. And so, yeah, I just love everything you're saying about how we can really start to think about how this can work for us in a way to take our content and our deliverables to next level.

Kerry Guard [00:54:48]:

And I do want to touch on before we close out here, something else you're using AI for and design. You mentioned design being so important to you, and it shows. I want you all to go to the resources library right now and just visually look at the content that David and his three-person team are producing right now thanks to AI. And I got to say, visual AI is a lot harder than written AI. Talk us through a little bit the visual piece of how like, okay, you have a written and you kick it over to a designer who also uses AI. How are those pieces coming together?

David Mundy [00:55:33]:

So I still use my artist friend Bo, who I worked with at accuracy and then at tenable, and then now he has his own company and he's an artist through and through, right? Brilliant, brilliant artist. But he uses AI, right, and loves it. And again, my argument, and I'm happy to debate anybody ever, but my argument is always a time to value, right? And I'll get into that 1 second if we have time. But essentially, if you think about any of the content we create, we want design that's relevant to the content, that can enhance the story. So we will send the content over to Bo our and because to your point, yes, I have tried, and you'll see a couple of blog posts there where he's been out of town or he's been busy and we needed to get it out. So we've used know Dolly or something to create. But man, prompting for imagery is so hard and you'll never get the same image twice. And it really wants to dive into the abstract and you're like, I want minimalist.

David Mundy [00:56:31]:

And the time to value decreases when you don't have a design eye and you're trying to build this thing out, let me tell you. So I don't think it's there yet. There's probably some tools I'm not familiar with that are there. I have not found them yet. So we send it to Bo will take the content, and he will use the AI tools that he uses. And to be honest, I'm not 100% sure what he uses. I know he does use Dolly sometimes, but he has other tools that he likes, that he uses on the AI side, and then he'll pull that out, put it into any one of his tools, let's just say Photoshop for the sake of this conversation. And then he'll fix and he'll adjust and he'll kind of remediate the image from take out any of the abstract, because he knows what we like, obviously, and what we want to show, and then he'll create this image. Like a good piece to look at would be.

David Mundy [00:57:16]:

There's a piece that we wrote, a white paper I wrote with my team called Queen's Gambit, the chess move. But it's really about the big security teams and how they need to focus on data security, rather than just kind of perimeter and infrastructure security, right? And how data is, especially with AI and data becoming a massive business driver, is what we need to be focused on. But there's a massive chess analogy throughout the piece. So he took the content and he wrapped it in a kind of data themes and data security themes throughout the paper, along with this massive chess analogy and this digital chess component. And we've gotten so many compliments on this, you as well, and thank you for that. Gotten so many compliments on our design now. And here's the kicker. I've worked with Bo for a very long time, right? Years.

David Mundy [00:58:06]:

It used to take him a few weeks to finalize, like a big white paper for us or something like that, right? And get us that. Used to take him a few weeks. He had other priorities and there's other reasons, right? But used to take him a few weeks, turns it around in about an hour. Whole white paper, anything, about an hour for us, right? We need this fast right there. Now, he might charge us for the expediting it, but a little bit extra. But he can turn it around in an hour. It's insane. A white paper, like I said, four to six weeks.

David Mundy [00:58:32]:

I can turn around a white paper on just about any subject. Some are a bit harder than others, some require more manual effort. And I can't use chat GBT as much outside of the outline. But average, I can turn out like, say a five to seven-page white paper and complete it in about a week, maybe a little bit less than if I spend direct time on there with his designing in about an hour. Now, you have full white papers in about a week, right, that are telling, that are specifically based on content. They have our voice, they have our creativity. You can go and look for yourself, right? They have your analogies, but that goes back to the prompting and the way that people use it, right? Chat GBT wasn't going to, and I'm not saying it's a good analogy of Queen's chess in data security. So we can argue that on a different point, but GBT is not going to give me that analogy, right? That's the human element to what you were talking about that's the enhancing ability and how people need to be focused on these AI tools as a tool to enhance the same way HubSpot or Marketo enhanced our marketing automation abilities and created the ability to nurture and send mass emails and analyze it.

David Mundy [00:59:38]:

The same way Salesforce was able to log all of our, take our customers from an Excel spreadsheet, right? And put them into, and there were CRMs before Salesforce, I know, but sales and be able to manage our leads, prospects, customers and start pulling out that data and that information the same way those have evolved. Right. This is a tool that can enhance and to your point, yes. In no way replace matter of fact help hire more and especially people that have prompting ability.

Kerry Guard [01:00:07]:

Yeah. Oh my gosh, David, we could talk about this all day and I do think we should meet up in the new year and talk about creating a course around this because I think this is where everything is going to head. You're ahead of the game as is your company, clearly. And I think this is a great way to educate your buyers on why they need you because it's almost that practice what you preach, right? So if your whole product is based in AI and then you're using AI through all the different portions of your company from operations to marketing to sales, that just enhances that you know what you're doing because you literally use AI in everything that you do and then the data that comes with it and how to analyze it through AI. So way to practice what you preach. Way to give us an example of how this can be done so well. And in less than a year you've really cracked onto something and I think we all need to pay attention to it. So I'm so grateful for you to come along and share it with us.

Kerry Guard [01:01:11]:

Before we close out, we talked in 2001, which feels like eons ago. What's new for you in the last two years, especially after COVID, have you picked up any new hobbies? Are you traveling more outside of work? What's a new exciting thing that's been going on for you?

David Mundy [01:01:31]:

Trying to avoid Dad bot I think is the number one thing, right? No, I got into being more active, and in shape. So here's the funny thing about this real quick, right? I've always heard growing up throughout my career has been, oh, make sure you spend time with your family. Like family is there forever. Your jobs are going to come and go, but spend time with your family. And it's always been like there's an interesting, let's say dichotomy there because it's like, yeah, but for us that are up and coming, we don't have a lot of time, especially in starter because we're working 60, 70 hours and I feel like being able to spend time with your family is a luxury you get to have. Once you've quote-unquote made it right, then you get the luxury of being able to do that. But for when we're, when our hands are in the dirt and we're in the field and we're growing throughout our careers, it's tough. So what have I been doing post-COVID? Fortunately, because I've been doing this for like 1718 years when I didn't have as many white hairs.

David Mundy [01:02:30]:

I have now in the privilege and the luxury of I have a three-year-old and a seven-year-old. I'm fortunate to work from home in the startup world, so I get to watch my kids grow and I get to spend all the time in the world with my kids and pick them up for school and tease them and embarrass the just daylights out of them with all their friends. I get to play sports with them and my daughter's starting jiu jitsu soon, and my son's starting Muay Thai soon. She dances, they sing, they play basketball, they swim. So I'm very fortunate situation and I understand that a lot of people can't and just luckily I built up through my career to get here, but I would say being more active myself and being more in shape, basketball, working out, boxing myself, but being able to spend time with my children in a variety of ways has just been my mom had to work and she worked nights and she did everything she could to get me and my brothers a good life, but she just could not be there all the time, even though she was there as much as she could be. So it's a blessing for me to be able to watch my kids grow and have the luxury to do that. It's cool not to get cheesy or end on a cheesy note.

Kerry Guard [01:03:45]:

No, I'm so there with you. It is definitely like what remote has brought to us all of this ability to be with our children as they grow up. It's the pitical, it's that three to 1012 years, that's what we get. They go off with their friends and they forget about us and that's fine.

David Mundy [01:04:08]:

Can I make one more, one more really quick pitch to AI, especially because I know people are going to see this and I'm going to have friends that are going to laugh at me and they're going to debate me again? So I want to. This is one of the arguments. Just real quick, real quick. I promise.

Kerry Guard [01:04:20]:

Let's do it. Let's do it.

David Mundy [01:04:21]:

So I said, it's like, imagine you have three chefs, three amazing chefs, and two of them, you give three ingredients, but you give that third great chef just an extra ingredient, right? That third great chef now has an extra ingredient, right? Well, now that chef has the ability to do something special with that one extra ingredient, right? And that analogy came from Chamath Polyapatia, who's, if you're not familiar, for those who aren't familiar, is VP of AOL, VP of growth at Facebook, and now he's a pretty prominent VC. I think he said that on his all-in podcast. But that point, right, especially with that extra ingredient, it's like, look at your average marketing, right? Like, let's focus on the really brilliant marketers, right? And then again, because some of my buddies that I debate with are in product marketing, let's say specifically in product marketing, and who work in early-stage companies, which is the basis of my experience, they know their product in and out. They understand the market so well. They've helped develop the product market fit, the value drivers, the positioning, they've helped sales find the ideal customer profile and the target buyer. Now they're building their go-to market strategy, and they need to build and grow the fuel to power the demand gen engine. And in most cases, these engines feed a lot of marketing vehicles, right? So a variety of content is needed to fuel them. How long does it take that person, that product marketer? And then what's the cost and what's the ROI on the content they provide versus the time it takes to deliver the content, versus the cost of delay in the greater market for how long it takes them to do it the traditional way, then conceivably against a competitor who's hired a larger marketing team due to better fundraising.

David Mundy [01:05:53]:

So when you look at the value of AI tools, I often ask people, yes, there's a lot of work that needs to go into learning how to prompt and how to train it and to build it. But look at the actual KPIs that we use to analyze our own market performance and put that up against what AI can generate. And I don't see any way that you can't benefit from using one of these tools in a massive way.

Kerry Guard [01:06:21]:

I mean, essentially all into David's going against Goliath or better.

David Mundy [01:06:26]:

Much better. Yes.

Kerry Guard [01:06:29]:

Yes, it does. It gives those smaller teams a huge edge as you have proven with your three person team producing amazing content in a very short amount of time. You are the book, the case study for sure on how to do this. And I'm so grateful that you brought those ingredients to the table for us on how we can start to figure it out. We got to figure it out whether we want to or not. It's like how I had to figure out digital photography whether I wanted to or not, how to figure it out. And we're going to be up against that with AI. And you just gave us a huge leg up.

Kerry Guard [01:07:04]:

David. I'm so grateful. I'm grateful to our listeners. Thank you for joining us. If you liked this episode, please, like subscribe, and share. I appreciate you. We're heading into 2024. I am booked up for the first eight weeks.

Kerry Guard [01:07:17]:

We have some great shows lined up for you. So please, like I said, like subscribe and share. This episode was brought to you by MKG Marketing, the digital market agency that helps cybersecurity and complex brands grow via se and digital ads. If you want to be a guest, come hang out with me. I'd love to have you. And let's bring in the new year. Thank you all so much. Thank you.