Bringing Authenticity to Cybersecurity Marketing with Kelsey Purcell

Overview:

In this episode of Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders, host Kerry Guard sits down with Kelsey Purcell, a dynamic marketing professional with over a decade of experience in cybersecurity and digital marketing. Kelsey shares her journey from discovering her passion for marketing in high school to excelling in startup environments. She explores the nuances of creating impactful messaging, engaging with a risk-averse audience, and navigating the ever-evolving world of cybersecurity. Listeners will gain valuable insights into the art of storytelling, the power of consistent branding, and the importance of focusing on what truly matters in marketing.

Transcript:

Kelsey Purcell 0:00

But it doesn't have to be an or statement, it can be an and. Like they can beat us out with budget and we can still win where it matters.

Kerry Guard 0:06

Own it. I love it. Hello. Welcome back to Tea Time with tech marketing leaders. It is 2025, y'all, are you ready? Are you buckled up? Are you like Rick Ward, ready to go? Or are you more of like taking a back seat and leaning in and just like enjoying the ride, I'm so curious. Tell us in the comments where you are and how you are approaching this year right here, right now. We want to hear it. We want to hear it. I am so excited to kick off this episode. This is a happy accident, because somebody else was supposed to be here, and I'm very sad that they aren't. But don't worry, they will be back in February. But I had this opening, and I had just had this wonderful, wonderful, wonderful conversation with a lovely Kelty Purcell, and it was just like this coffee chat. And I was like, oh, no, no, we need to, I need to have her on the show. So I called up Kelsey, hey, do a Thursday. I want to come hang out. She was like, Yeah, let's do it. So here we are, folks, here we are. I am so excited because we are going to probably change it left, right center, but I always bring us back to center, because the conversation we're going to have today is going to get super meta as we talk about the importance of making hard conversations conversational. I did it. Yes, it did. Yes, hard conversations, conversational. We're going to dig into that. But first we have to know about Kelsey, because you don't know her like I know her, and I want you to know her like I know she's wonderful. Little bit about Kelsey, and then we'll hear we'll hear her story firsthand. Kelsey has 10 plus years of digital marketing experience as a data driven, problem solving marketer who is committed to always figuring it out the and constantly evolving the or with the digital world wearing the necessary hats and remaining chill and easy going on the way to delivering results that no matter, wow, I really would love to do that again. Pretty big. Live dusting it off, folks. That's it enough.

Kelsey Purcell 2:01

So that might be the gist.

Kerry Guard 2:06

She's awesome. Well, she knows what she's doing. She's also super chill about Hey, there we go, right. There we go. Yeah. Kelsey, welcome to the show.

Kelsey Purcell 2:17

Thank you so much. I'm so happy. I love happy accidents. I'm a big like Bob Ross how do we how do we just incorporate that in? So I'm happy to be here.

Kerry Guard 2:30

I'm clearly very excited to have you. I just trip it over my own words, and I just want to get to the root of all the things we're going to talk about. So let's kick off with your story. You know, whether marketing found that's where we found marketing. It's always a joy to hear how you got into it. So where are you now, and how did you get there?

Kelsey Purcell 2:47

Okay, so now I am literally living in my dream location in the Outer Banks, North Carolina. And it's because, like, I'm able to do this because of what I do. Um, so I work remotely. I'm at my second cyber security startup, and I love it. I feel like I've really found like my home, as far as where I who I like to work with, the environment, all of the things. But I have to laugh, because when we were having our coffee date, you were like, you know, it's not like a doctor or whatever. You don't dream of being a marketer when you're like, growing up. But I was thinking back, and I really started when I was in high school. So maybe didn't get into the classes in high school, but I was taking business classes. I was doing, like the marketing thing, and you could do a, like, early release program if you had a job. So I originally thought that I wanted to be in like the therapy, like, therapist world. And then I did business marketing, and I was like, oh, no, I want to. I want to be in marketing. I'm really good at it. I really enjoy it. And so I went into college, like, I'm gonna have a marketing degree. I got my degree in marketing. I worked in college, like doing advertising and marketing. And then from my first job, I have been in marketing. So maybe I'm not the the typical marketer. I don't think I dreamed of it when I was little. I actually, full disclosure, wanted to be like a pilot, like a jet pilot. But yeah, I since, you know, things got, got real ish, I've been in the marketing world and leaning into it. So how it all started?

Kerry Guard 4:44

Oh my gosh, yeah, high school, you learned about you. You've had, you've had. I was, just imagine the game,

Kelsey Purcell 4:54

yeah, yeah. I was, uh, I was, like, full, full marketing nerd. Started. In high school, like junior year of high school, and just kept riding that wave. I'm still on it so I don't see it stopping anytime.

Kerry Guard 5:11

It's so interesting, because usually when you like find something, and usually when you find something you like or love doing like I so I went to when i i found photography in high school, decided I wanted to go to college for it, but then college sort of beat the creativity out of me and ruined it. And so when I left my my uncle, who helped me get my first media planning job, was like, I'm sending you to New York simply because you're going to be a photographer. I'm not a media plan for media planner forever. And I was like, yes, exactly a Gulshan totally and and then I found spreadsheets. But it was like, uh, so I, you know, for somebody to actually fall in love with it and be able to stick with it. It's just so unheard of, and I just love that. I am a little jealous that I wasn't able to, like, stick to the thing. But what did you What's your thoughts on, like, you know what marketing meant to you as a high schooler, versus, like, where you are today? Has it drastically changed, or is it somewhat just like, the same of what it's always been? But you just know more?

Kelsey Purcell 6:28

No, I think, like there, there are foundations that are the same, right? But I truly think, like in high school, things aren't totally hard, because you don't have a lot, but high school is like a weird, awkward time, and I was good at it, like it, it just tapped into my strengths, and I had great teachers, and then the strengths just kind of continued, And it came really naturally to me, and I enjoyed it, right? I didn't, I don't know this sounds weird, but I didn't like there are things that I was good at, but I didn't really enjoy them, like they didn't fill my cup, but marketing did. And when I was in college, I had multiple professors who were like, no, come be a finance major. No, come be a cis major, and especially on the CIS world, which is ironic now because I'm in the cybersecurity, you know, realm, they were like, We have no women in our program. Please come be in the program. But I think marketing just leans into my strengths, and I can feel that like individual fulfillment while also doing my job. But most, most of what I've learned, besides like random tidbits that I'll pull on, it's just from experience and meeting people and learning from them and asking questions and soundboarding Like that's all really, really important, and marketing changes every day. I mean, think about even five years ago, there's an element of influencer marketing and social and video and all of the things that wasn't even a consideration when I was in I think when I was in school, Instagram was just starting. And I'm dating myself now, but we used to like post very filtered pictures of our food. So just to get started where it was and where it's gone in the last 10 plus years, I mean, that's

Kerry Guard 8:39

I mean, that's how everybody got started on Instagram,

Kelsey Purcell 8:41

yeah, yes. And like, so silly, but so little pressure, right? It was just like, oh, here we are not created. This is just what I'm doing. Here's my spaghetti.

Kerry Guard 9:00

It's so true. So in terms of, like, understanding, even back then, what your sort of superpowers and strengths were, what, what were they that? It sounds like they're the same now, but how have they evolved since?

Kelsey Purcell 9:18

Yeah, so I'm a big problem solver, sometimes to a fault, and I think this like analytical thinking of, okay, how do we figure this out? But the creativity that comes with marketing of, how do we do this in a way that's notable, and not just like a snooze fest, and not something that you know, you can point to the street on the street, or, in our case, like on LinkedIn or digital, and see it happening 1015, times. So how do we achieve and like solve this problem that we're facing, and that's kind of ever evolving, right? Like you. And my boss and I talk all the time where marketing doesn't have this end game, it's just consistent and constant, and it's always flowing, and you're always figuring out, like, Okay, what's the next challenge? What are we going to do next? What's our next like, creative thing, even if you do the most amazing marketing thing, you've now set the standard for yourself. So what's next? And

Kerry Guard 10:23

we've got to up the challenge, up the bar, yeah, yeah.

Kelsey Purcell 10:27

So I think that like problem solving capability, and then, like the creative element of, how can I tap into my creativity and also have this, like, data driven analysis part of myself? Because I told you, like, I was really good at technical things. I'm really good at math. I'm like those elements, but I'm also creative, and I really like writing, and I like that element as well. So it just kind of married the two. And then the evolution is how I learn and listen from other people, because I'm so excitable, and I'm like, my ADD is coming out, where I'm just like, so jumping at the bit, so excited, ready to do something, and listening to people and taking it in, and, like, taking a step back to think through what we're doing and how it can be meaningful, instead of, like, jumping one to the other is really, really been something that's happened, like, the last few years, that I have enjoyed, which previously, like, could have been a challenge for me, but could have been tapped into as like, a strength, right? If you're in those environments where you have multiple clients, or you have, like, so many things going on that you need to constantly, like, be kind of jumping in and, like, making yourself known. Now I've kind of taken a little bit of like, okay, what do I want to hear from other people? And how will that help me have better ideas? And having that like combination of conversation.

Kerry Guard 12:14

Giving our game away. Kelsey, you're jumping to the jumping ahead. I want to build you back a little bit. We're not quite there yet, but I do think this is what's so wonderful about your superpower. And I have the same sort of aha moment in terms of how I've figured out later in life how I learned and how I learned is also like the man the power of podcast was so eye opening for me simply because I am a I am an auditory learner, interesting, and I learned so much faster and better through listening versus reading. And so that has just been which is why I love podcasting, because as a host, you just do a whole lot. I probably should do less talking and do more listening, but generally, you're supposed to do a whole lot of listening. And I have to say, podcasting the last five years has been like the best school ever because of that, of where, like, what questions and curiosities do I have, and getting to sit across tables from amazing, smart people like you, I get to ask them and listen and find the trends and absorb and so, yeah, I I agree, learning how we learn, and then being able to really lean into that has been such a gift of of later years. Man, I wish I had that when I was younger.

Kelsey Purcell 13:34

I was like, Wow, such a because we the types of learners, was discussed, right? Like that was something I don't remember which class. If it was like, I don't know whatever. And you think, okay, so you could decide what type of learner people are, and like, you could distinguish that. But there wasn't an offering for them. It wasn't like, oh, instead of reading 100 pages of this book, you can go listen to it, or listen to a summary, or listen to somebody explain it. It was, hey, we know that you're an auditory learner. Still gotta read the textbook.

Kerry Guard 14:11

See, you guys still gotta read it. And let me quiz you about what color hat the girl was wearing, or let me ask you why they dropped their keys and didn't want to go home. I have no idea

Kelsey Purcell 14:24

on that element, though. And I'll say this because it was a realization for myself, not just like professionally, but talking to different people and how they learn, is I can see visuals in my mind, like I can see how things are laid out. It is very, very clear to me, from a marketing perspective, what the funnel looks like, and what different paths people are taking and all of the elements that are pulling together. And I've had to learn how other people learn and think to make that accessible to them and vice versa, right? Like. I kind of look at people, I'm like, Okay, tell me what you're thinking, and then we can pull it out to see what what we need to do together. So it's like, how am I learning? How do I see things? What makes me brilliant, but also what makes them brilliant too? And how do we like bring that together? So everybody can see the brilliance and duplicate it.

Kerry Guard 15:25

Yes, I think it's so important, like whenever you're presenting information. I mean, I think that's what makes us great marketers. And to superpowers you're talking about is the ability to meet people where they are and present information in a way that we know is going to resonate with them because of how you know they process information and that we are not all the same, like I know when I walk into a meeting with my business partner, who's a very different learner than I am. He is a reader, a voracious reader. That dude reads like three or four books a month. And so I know that if I can write my thoughts down really intentionally and get that to him ahead of time, then we could have a really great conversation, because he's had a moment to absorb what I said, versus auditory where it takes him a lot longer to process what I'm saying, versus reading it. So yes, to like me being an auditory learner, but not expecting everybody else to be, and needing to make sure that we're meeting people where they are, which I think is what makes marketing even so much harder these days, because, because you don't know do so much more, we

Kelsey Purcell 16:31

can ask our audience like, so how do you learn best? So like, what reaches you in a great way? And you, if you have 100 different people, you could have like 100 different nuance, nuances of how they prefer to be spoken to, which is essentially what we're trying to do with marketing, is just speak to who we think will be interested in what we're trying to say. But how are we speaking them? Is it like a visual? Is it a podcast? Is it a email? Is it like a LinkedIn post? Is it they want to come to us and they want to make like the first move, all of these assumptions that we have to make, and then like iterations, we're we're really learning constantly, which is, I think, like, Why? Why we, when you asked about, like, how does marketing change? Well, we're constantly learning about what types of channels and like, how we can communicate to them. And I think people are also learning how they preferred to be communicated to, especially if we think about like the people in our target audiences that are in their 50s, 60s and so forth. Well, a lot of this stuff wasn't available to them, but maybe it's their preference. Now, maybe they didn't know that this is what they preferred. Who knows we I know kind of sometimes, and then maybe it changes tomorrow.

Kerry Guard 18:07

Well, let me ask you this. I, I'm, we're going to change it here for a hot second, folks. But I think it'll, it'll be helpful for later in the world, now that we live, um, needing to be able to speak to so many different people in so many different ways, right? It's taking our marketing and sort of breaking it apart into so many tiny pieces. It's becoming, I'm going to speak for myself, it feels overwhelming and a bit unmanageable, like I have a client who's a coach, and we're talking about, like, all the different places he could be, right? He could be on Instagram, he could be on LinkedIn, he could be on YouTube. He could be, he could be, he could be, he could be. It's like, we don't have the kind of resources that is needed to be everywhere all the time for everyone. So I know that you need to be on LinkedIn, and it would be fun, because we have video to also be on YouTube and Instagram, because we can sort of systematize that, but otherwise, like we gotta, this is where we need to lean into so how are you approaching your marketing in a way that doesn't feel like you have to be everywhere once, trying to meet your audience all the time, everywhere?

Kelsey Purcell 19:16

Yes, such a good question for for startup world as well, because we are building the foundation that you then build on. And so we don't have this like, Oh, we've been doing the traditional marketing for 10 years now. Like, let's do something new. Let's expand. And when we have this great team, I always tell people, and if you've worked with me before, you've probably heard this. If you try to be everything to everyone, you end up like doing nothing. And it kind of feels like really unfulfilling, too, because as the person executing, you're like, I'm doing all this stuff. I'm everyone. I'm like, putting everything everywhere, and then you don't feel like you're seeing the fruits of your labor, so you're doing a lot and not getting a lot done. So when I'm talking about what the goals are and what what we want to achieve, what we've tried already, and where we want to go from there. That's when I decide, okay, where does it make the most sense to absolutely, we have to check the box right? Like there are some things that you just you have to check the box. It's easy to do. And then you can kind of say, alright, and then, how do we get creative? We know that people are consuming video, and to your point, like, can we create video content and then from there, streamline a promotion? Or, can we create video content and from there create, like, multiple pieces of written content that then can be shared easier in places that are more check the box. So that's kind of how I look at it, as like, Okay, let's take this big goal and break it down to things that are actionable, and we can test and we can try new things, but if we're doing X, we might not be doing y, and we need to be okay with that. We need to, like, not have FOMO and kind of keep our blinders on, yeah, and not feel like we're constantly, like, ambulance chasing or on the on the coattails of somebody else that might have a much bigger team, and it might much bigger budget, and like different priorities, we don't really know what's happening, so we have to decide what's right for us, and then kind of put our egos aside. Because even if we love it as marketers, and we're like, this is so much fun. I love doing this. I know this is like, I am so brilliant. We have to know when it's time to say, hey, great idea, maybe not the best for what we're doing right now. And like, leave it alone. You have to accept that sometimes things are not going to pan out the way that we expect them to and pivot when the time comes, instead of, like, just continuing to try to make it work, like, you kind of have to make sure that you have this, like, I always call it a benchmark if you don't have anything else, like, if you don't have existing data to rely on. I say, okay, what are we trying to reach? And if we're failing, are we failing forward? Or if it if we're not, like, if we're not making it work at all, we just need to scrap it and do something else. We tried great effort. Maybe we'll try again at a time, but like, if we can't control the outcomes and making it positive, then we just need to move on. Because, to your point, like there is so much that we can do so much on that's

Kerry Guard 23:06

how you talk about the the foundation of what you're building right now. Because I think that's, I think that's key to any marketing efforts. I literally, yesterday, was talking to my husband about what we're going to do for mkg in terms of marketing, and he's like, at the end of my thought, he left the room like he didn't even take a buy or anything. He just turned around and left the room. And I was like, are you okay? He's like, there's too many moving pieces.

Kelsey Purcell 23:30

There's so much happening here. I just don't feel like there's room for me in this room. You're like,

Kerry Guard 23:36

but that is marketing. Like there is there. It does feel like there are a million moving pieces. But when you're building it the way that we're talking about, of the foundation first and then the pieces on top of it, it doesn't feel so daunting. So in terms of foundation for you, what? What are you starting with? You know, you've done startups a couple times as your second startup, where do you and I'm sure every startup is different, and we can do that. It depends sort of notion, but in terms of what's working for you right now from a foundational standpoint, what are you starting with? What does your foundation look like from a marketing perspective?

Kelsey Purcell 24:12

Okay, this element might not be me, but it is so key. Is like, what are we trying to say, what is the consistent message from first, first intro to our company, all the way through and like, what are the core pieces? Because I feel like anything that you do from there you one want to make sure that things that you do execute are still relevant. Because if you do something and then the messaging shifts three weeks later, you know you want what you've done to still be something that's relevant, even if you have to update and make it more timely whatever it is. So what is the message? What do we want to get done? What are the goals and expectations of. Leadership around what we're doing, so making sure, not necessarily like just taking what their goals are, but making sure that it can be supported by the work that you do. It can be numbers, it can be what their idea of your particular marketing role is, and then I will create an action plan of, hey, here's like a list of the obvious, right? Like content pieces, top of funnel, middle funnel, bottom of funnel. Like partners that we can get with all of the things that you know about or can research podcast is a big one now and then you take kind of those concepts of, okay, what do we have? Is there any content existing? What can we do with it? Can we take that content and manipulate it across channels? And so that way you at least have, like, grassroots, something running, something going and then doing, like creative iteratives, iteratives that make that require more time and maybe more stakeholders, and you need co founders involved, and their schedules are a little bit wonky, so you know that it's going to take more review process or whatever it is. So get the stuff out the door that way you can feel like, okay, check the box. I got it done. I'm feeling productive. And then go from there, of like things that might be a little bit more off the wall, or might take more time and might require, you know, more people or contract workers, or whatever it is, because you don't have a 2500 person company where you can be like, hey, yeah, call Sarah. She's totally like, game. She just finished a project, whatever you kind of your one man show for a little bit. And so you have to and and everybody on your team is also doing like, a one man band type deal. Like, like, team with you, total

Kerry Guard 27:07

marketing

Kelsey Purcell 27:07

total. Like, everybody is wearing tons of hats. So you have to consider that, because, like, my boss will say she's like, okay, idea is great. Let's get it across the line, like, let's do some executing, and that that takes, like, that planning. So I say the messaging thing, because I've seen it change, and it's just like, deflates a team of we just did all that work, and now we have, now it's not as relevant, even if right, it's still accurate, like it's not as relevant to what we're trying to say now. So it just kind of, you know, it,

Kerry Guard 27:48

it does, ah, yes, I have to say that that probably is a crucial moment. That was, I think about the startups I've worked with, of when we've when we've lost our momentum, was when the messaging change that we had to switch gears. Oh, man, there's nothing that feels like you're starting over more than that before we keep going Kelsey, because I can just keep on rolling here. I'm going to pause for a hot second. I see all the questions coming in. I want you all to know that we are not ignoring you. Elijah is doing a beautiful job of keeping me informed. I'm going to circle back on your questions. Hang in there. I want to get to the heart of what Kelsey and I are going to unpack. I'm sure your questions will weave into that. So thank you for your patience. I see you. I'll be right with you, because, man, there's some good fodder in here that we need to unpack before we do it, a Q and A in terms of the real conversation, we want to have Kelsey around having making hard conversations conversational. It sounds like and we've talked about this, so I'm trying to sound like we haven't already had this conversation. We all know why we already had this conversation. I'm just trying to tee it up. But essentially, once, in terms of getting to getting to that messaging piece, which I would, I would argue, is probably one of the hardest things to do at a company, at mkg, we're still struggling with it 13 years in, and we still have not figured out our positioning. It is the tale as old as time, folks. It's the hardest thing to do of like, why you? Why are you special? Why are unique? And why should we care? Right? Just another marketing agency. So as a quote, unquote, just another cyber security agent market, cyber security company. I say that with not meeting any single word of it, I have to know like how I imagine the conversations that need to be, that need to be. Add internally and externally to get there are there's a certain skill that comes with being able to peel back that onion and go deep to really touch on, why your company? Why should we buy buying from you? And I don't know that we all know how to do that very well. So help us out. How do you get started on having these tough conversations? Like, how do you start breaking down those walls? What do you put in place to say to be able to really get to the heart and the root of the of the issue? Yeah,

Kelsey Purcell 30:35

Kerry, you're so kind. Like, think so highly of me. I don't know that I have, like, the secret sauce answer, but I'll tell you what I've done and what I've seen, and also this idea I'm saying, like, Oh, get your messaging in in play, as if it's this, like, easy, why wouldn't you have thought of that? Totally not the case, right? Like, no, it is so complex. And I'm lucky that they the the team here where I'm currently, they did such a good job with messaging and branding. It's been so nice to step into it and you listen to so much like, as you're taking it in. And that's where I came back to like, oh, I I'll just listen. I'll ask questions to people throughout the whole organization. It can be SES, it can be people on sales. It can be co founders, tech teams, R and D teams, and I'll ask them a bunch of questions. It might be something like, what are you hearing people say? What was that thing that you presented to a now customer that clicked in their brain to say, yep, that's why. And I think, like sometimes there's this divide with marketing, especially in the tech world, because of, you know, the stereotypes of both sides. But the reason that I love like, the environment that I'm in is everybody's just like, No, go ask, talk to whoever. There's no red tape, like, put time on whoever's calendar. But just asking the questions and then listening to presentations. I will sometimes, especially when I first start a place, I'll be on a call that I'm not really adding to, but I'll listen to the co founder, or I'll listen to CISOs, and I'll take notes about things that they said, and then, like, manipulate them into a marketing way and see if that's going to be part of our messaging. And then, as we figure out, like, are things working on social how do we pull this message into a small clip for a short social video? We'll kind of massage it and take it from there, but it's always going back to that core component that we want people to know about us. And I think, like sometimes with marketing, we always want to, like, evolve and do something different, whatever. I think that there's brilliance and consistency. So once you have that message, even if you're changing topics, or you know, you're going from a top of funnel conversation to middle or bottom, you can still like string that along and have that consistency throughout, and have that messaging that you know resonates, and just kind of like move it along or change it A little bit based on where the channel is, and I'll tell you, like, for example, for one some of the feedback came from, like, a third party meeting. Some of it came from episodes of podcasts before I came is like the story of our co founder being a practitioner and him understanding the scars of CISOs, like from personal experience to creation, it's something that I've incorporated in parts of the strategy and multiple messages and like different pieces of content, and I think that it's really important to like listen and hear those elements and then pull them into what you're doing. And it helps, like not be distracted by the next shiny thing. It's okay. How do we do a shiny thing but still stay true to what we need to say and who we need to say it to?

Kerry Guard 34:36

Storytelling is so key, and in a way, what I love about this is it's the giving credibility of the company through the person who created the company and lived where people are. I find that founders sort of lose sight of that they were once they built the thing because they were. Once the person who had the pain to begin with. And so I love that you're pulling that through. I think that's so key. Let's talk about some you know, it sounds like from the lot of what you're doing, from a marketing perspective, is making things more conversational in general, right? So even by telling a story, it all of a sudden, it opens up to all these questions I have that I can't answer because we don't have time. So like, even just that you you tend to be able to make things so naturally conversational, so and for what we talked about, and from the point of this from our for this podcast is about how we do that, right So, and the importance. So let's talk about why you're feeling like now's the time to make things conversational to begin with.

Kelsey Purcell 35:57

Yes, so I'll talk specifically about our audience and cybersecurity in general. Is it can be very, very heavy with the information being shared by companies, by marketers, by news sources, like, there are multi million dollar breaches. People's lives are changed. There's so many elements of like why we have cyber security solutions and the fear mongering and the technicalities of it like being shared so loosely. This is opinion based, but it was just a lot, all of the time. And I was doing some research, and I realized that there was, there's at least one company that was created for CISOs because they were so burnt out, and like Gartner did, a report that I think they expect in 2025 hopefully this has changed that over 50% of CISOs were going to change roles entirely, not just, like, leave the company. They wanted to change roles because they were so overwhelmed with the pressure and, like, the psychological impact of what's expected of them. So there's that element, right? Like, who are we talking to? Who are the people behind our ICP characteristics, and how are we reaching them? And are they going to be able to hear us as a unique company when there's so much noise, they're so heavily marketed. I was on a call with somebody who was a CISO, and he kept nicely saying, I feel so special to marketers because, like, we just put so much information in front of them all of the time. So that was one element. And then the other element was, well, how are people consuming this, right? Like, how do we take these very technical concepts, these very important solutions, and make it in a way that they can hear us with how we're saying it, how we're reaching them, what format we're reaching them in, and then, no, yes, they'll get the data. Yes, they'll get the severity of this problem and this challenge, and they kind of need to know that they're not alone, and that we can have a conversation about it, and it's not as daunting as this. Like black hole of 90% of companies are being breached and all of this, and, you know, like all of the things, and on the flip side, there might be this promise of, like, be 100% secure, never get a breach. And that is not something that anybody can promise, right? Like, you have to find this ground of, do we need to fear monger them? And is that effective? And can we just be realistic about what we're offering that can be backed up by the solution, and speak to them in a way that makes them feel like, okay, yeah, I get that. I can talk to that person. I can have a conversation with that person. And being in room with CISOs and being at events and talking with them like I know I can have a conversation with them directly. So now I guess I'm just gonna do that behind a camera on video, and we're going to extend that to other video elements, like street interviews and all of like these fun things that kind of create this juxtaposition in a very serious industry, and very like, you know, like very serious, very technical, very you know, driven type A personalities to make it more conversational and make it and kind of like, get them to be more open to what you. We're trying to educate them about because it's all education and information that we're sharing, and the decision that's made is influenced by that, but ultimately it's their decision, and they have to one's like, comfortable making it one way or the other. I

Kerry Guard 40:21

think it's helpful to make it conversational too, because we don't have to assume that we know where they are right and then hopefully make the it's just we were talking about earlier of like, how do we not do so much? Well, you cannot do so much by actually understanding in the moment what people need. And so you just have the thing for that, that one moment, versus trying to anticipate what everything will eventually be someday. So let's have it on hand and create the thing. So I really love when it's conversational. Gives you the opportunity to not to create it on the fly, versus having to have it ready to rip forward, ready to go,

Kelsey Purcell 41:03

yeah, and to just do it like we talk about, okay, well, we don't want to assume where they are, but we also can't assume that they wouldn't be interested in a marketer being behind the camera and having education Like around this space in a very conversational way, because I know my role, right? I know that we are not going to have an in depth technical like banter. We're not going to talk about what I've coded because I haven't like since. Maybe my space days will date, will date me again. But we also can assume that they don't want that type of content and that type of channel, and so we get to say, why not? If it, if like, I always say, I'm not afraid to be wrong, so why not just assume that I'm right and prove otherwise. Assume that this will work until we know otherwise. Yeah, and like, if the worst thing out of it comes from having a microphone and a tripod, we're doing okay

Kerry Guard 42:18

in terms of, I love, I love what you said about you know, it's all, well, I'm going to talk about making things conversational and and doing that. It's easy to say that from a sales perspective, because that's what they're supposed to do. They just have these one on one personalized conversations on a regular basis. That's part of their job as marketers. It's not seen as part of our job necessarily, unless you do things like podcasting, we were doing today, but you're going, you talked about it, you sort of glossed over it. So I want to circle back on it and make it tangible for people, but you're doing you keep calling them street interviews. Paint us a picture here, Kelsey from you can see it in your beautiful brain, so pull it out for us in words of what street interviewing will look like and mean. And then what are you going to how are you going to create that content? And then what are you going to do

Kelsey Purcell 43:10

with it? Yes, so this came from a conversation with my boss. So I started this company in October, and just kind of hit the ground running. I'm so sad that I don't have the examples, because I was rained out in Boston when I was going to do it and but we will have examples soon. It's in the works. So street interviews, think like everybody on Well, not everybody, but a lot of people on Tiktok are doing these interviews? Let me talk to a stranger. Let me ask them about something. Well, I'm going to try to tailor my audience a little bit more to be more in the cyberspace, or assuming that they're in the cyberspace, and talk to them about what, what do NH eyes mean? Like, what do you think that the NHI acronym stands for. How do you see the cyber security evolving from your point of view? Because, again, it's very different, right? Like on Tiktok, there are deep fakes already, and that's just the norm for them. Whereas when I joined Tiktok, I was like, first of all, I'm too old for this, but I'm not. And second of all, that the the nature of it took a learning curve for me. And so these people who are in college, or who are who are studying the in cyber security, they're getting to learn about it in real time, whereas, like, I'm going back and educating myself. So we're just gonna have a chat on the street about what NHS are. What do you like, think or know about the challenge at hand? How do you see them evolving with the current state? Right? Because, like, developers aren't going anywhere, and how. Aren't going anywhere. And those are two critical components of the non human identity issue, which is what my company does. So I'm using it as a as my example. So where do we see it going from here and making it like cool hip I already have the jeans picked out that I'm wearing because I've had multiple teenage girls, multiple compliment me, like, as I'm putting my baby in the car, my 17 month old, they're like, I love your jeans. I'm like, Oh, okay. Mental note, I am so lazy.

Kerry Guard 45:35

Are they preppy? Are they so preppy?

Kelsey Purcell 45:38

Yeah, so baggy. They're like, they're called, like, elephant leg jeans, they're all baggy and like, comfy for me, because I don't know, I wish, like, baggy jeans and T shirts and tennis shoes were were in when I was in college and high school, because that it's just so comfy. So now I get to go, like, outside of college campuses, in cities, and pose. I'm going to be a poser, like, I'm young, hip and cool. I think I'm hip and cool, but we'll

Kerry Guard 46:13

see you're I, I totally think you're hip and cool. So are you going to a specific conference to do this? Because you said you're going to, you're going to zone in on site, you know, on CISOs, in the cybersecurity crowd. But you have to know that there's cybersecurity crowd, because you're talking about very technical things. So I'm assuming you're going to some sort of conference where all these people will be hanging out. Naturally,

Kelsey Purcell 46:34

it will happen at conferences, because I will be there. So if anybody watching sees me and you want to chat, let's do it. Very fun. Yes, I'm with it, but I'm also going to be targeting some college campuses. So, yeah, yeah. So I have, like, a few different I'm very big on, like, let's not recreate the wheel. Let's just hop on the wheel that's already turning. So I have a few different things planned around college campuses this year, and I think that that's like one there, there. I feel like a little bit more open to that these newer concepts, they're very comfortable, like in front of the camera. It's a great way for us, who are maybe trying something new, to try it in a way where you're like, I don't care what this 20 year old thinks about me, but let's have fun together and like, let's get this confident and what you can do with it, and being, being like, part of our brand and relevant to who we are and what we're doing. How do you kind of spin that? I think a lot of it is like, you just have to try, you just have to do it. And, yeah, if you're there work, like just, why not try it?

Kerry Guard 48:05

I have more questions, but I'm going to pause because our audience is just, is, is more important than I am, and they have some really good questions. So let's dive in here. If we don't get to your question, please know that we will follow up asynchronously and make sure we get you would answer, because there's a lot of really good ones in here. Beth asked Kelsey, what is the time frame you use to test something to see if it works or not? Does it depend on what type of marketing channel?

Kelsey Purcell 48:33

Totally can depend on the type of marketing channel and where you're going. But I don't want to say that, because that's not like super helpful. I think that if you have a specific channel and you're trying to test something, get an idea of the benchmark of how long before it can take results, because there are so many factors, right? It can depend on your budget, it can depend on how big your audience is. It can depend on how many ads or how many things you have running. And then, on the flip side, if you're testing this whole new concept, like I am with video that can take much longer. If what you're able to measure or not able to measure, it can take much longer. So if I'm testing something, and I get to set those parameters. I will do a couple of things. I will set expectations and make sure that they're understood by leadership and who is measuring my success on the program. And like, you know, we we have to prioritize what we're doing, and I don't want them to deprioritize something because we didn't leave enough time in order to determine whether or not the test was successful. And so I'll kind of determine that and get them on board. The other piece of advice that I will have is when you're launching a new test, especially if there's paid money. Around it. It can kind of feel like hitting the big red button and being like, oh my gosh, I'm spending money. I have to answer for it. Like, this is really stressful and blah, blah, blah. So for the first week, and I break this down, like first 24 to 48 hours, you make sure everything's running properly. You're not like, blowing through budget. Your parameters are set. And if you have less budget, err on the side of caution, because I would much rather a test take longer than blow through money and have to answer for 1000s of dollars that you're like, yeah, probably shouldn't have had the audience that big, or something along those lines. And then for the first two weeks, your your program might be ramping up. I'm using this as an example for like, if you're doing a test on LinkedIn or something like that, and the month mark is where I say we might be able to see it leaning one way or the other. So monitoring on a monthly basis, as you know, tests and campaigns get a little bit more traction, but my reporting for some of the tests are quarterly goals only because there's so much fluctuation that can happen. And when you're doing tests, Beth like control your controllables. What can you control in the matter? And then what do you have to consider that could be something that, like you didn't anticipate, budget changes, audience, etc, especially if you've never done it before. It's the first time. So timeframe does depend, but if you find your kind of baseline that you want to, that you want to reference, and then manipulate it so it works for you and works for your team and your budget and your audience size, if you're really nervous about testing something, you can always expand. It's a little bit harder to dial back. So I sometimes will start more conservatively with like audience size or ads or whatever, and then expand from there. I feel more comfortable with budgets, and that doesn't matter if I have a I've, I've had a company who's spending $50,000 a month or $5,000 a month, like, the value of the dollar is still there. So you can always start conservative, if you're nervous about tests or kind of the leadership is, like, iffy about what you're doing, and then expand from from there,

Kerry Guard 52:43

I totally agree, especially when it comes to ads. Google hates when you change too much too fast, so dialing up budgets left, right and center will freak it out, and you will get nowhere. So I love what you're saying. Kelsey, completely agree. Of like, putting a little bit in, getting it dialed in, and then building upon it. I do want to say, too that the idea of a testing schedule is really tricky because you don't know what you don't know, and so I love what you're again, just sort of doubling down on the aspect of iteration. So don't just pull something because you gave it three months doing it the same way and decided it didn't work, right? Look, set some clear KPIs and get after it. And, you know, make changes on a regular basis to really see, you know, give it a good run of If you've tried everything and it still isn't working, then okay? But like turning something on, giving it three months, not changing a thing, and then deciding it's not working is not necessarily the problem. So no, definitely dig into the diagnosis of that, and

Kelsey Purcell 53:54

it's not like a true test. So I think a lot of times we want things, and especially in the tech world, when you're dealing in Kerry, you've heard me say this, we want, like, a black and white picture. We want, like, yes, no, this worked. This didn't work. And we know in marketing that marketing is like a million Shades of Gray, so we have to, we have to find that in between where we say, Hey, these are our KPIs, these are our assumptions. This is the hypothesis, this is the goal, and we outline those things, and then we have the gray parts where it's and this is everything that we're testing. So yeah, that's, yeah, that's okay. I love it.

Kerry Guard 54:40

I could talk about this. All this could be in a podcast in and of itself. Because, yeah, I mean, I also believe in I'm going to pause because Juan Pablo Garcia asked so many great questions, and we're all you got to get to one of them. I'm so sorry, Juan, but we will circle back with you asynchronously. He asked Kelsey, how do you deal with. Momentum of big, established companies have in marketing communications and cybersecurity and the risk adverse ICP, you work with

Kelsey Purcell 55:09

Yes, that's a big question one, and I don't know if I have the full answer. I can tell you what I do, and it's really hard because we don't know what's going on, like Wizard of Oz, we don't know what's happening behind the scenes. And in this case, like we do have, I'm in a startup. We are, you know, we are cost efficient in what we do, and I don't have a Coca Cola budget, so I have to keep my blinders on and say, like, yes, okay, that's what they're doing. That's what they're saying. We have to be cognizant of that, right? Like, we have to be in tune with what big companies and competitors are doing. And I'll use my last startup as an example. So, and this is a good example, we have to be in tune with what they're doing, and we have to get back to that focused aspect that we talked about, which is what our goals, what is our messaging, what is the best way to disperse and reach our goals? And that might be more like budget friendly than a person with a seven plus figure budget for just marketing. So I'm going to give a perfect example one, and this comes from my previous company. It's it was a dspm startup. It was since acquired by a major corporation. So we started bidding on Google keywords. And I've worked with wonderful people who were part of the organization. They were extension bus on an agency. When I came in, we started bidding on data security, posture management, dspm keywords, when the search volume was like nothing, it was like 50, maybe search queries per month. But we bid on them for months, and we stayed true. They weren't getting, like, a ton of results. We kind of had to answer to that, and we just had to stay consistent. Stay consistent. And then that was in, like, June, I see little lovey hand. That was in June, 2022, May, June, and then in November, big ID and Wiz, who are huge and have astronomical budgets, what we're working with and like power, right? Like there's power in their domain. There's so many things that like Google considers, they announced that they were adding dspm solutions to their stack. And so with that big announcement, our our search queries grew a little bit like month over month, search queries went to like 1020, 530 500 but we own the search impression. Share of it because we stayed true to what our goals were, what our visions were, what we wanted to control, even if that didn't happen in the time frame that it did, we knew that that was that was a direct connection, and that that was what we needed people searching for in order for our ads. So our search impression share was like between 80 and 90% ownership of those key terms, and it went from 50 search volumes a month to 3500 and plus. So we benefited from companies, and a lot of times that'll happen. But like, it's hard to not compare yourself and to not say, Okay, well, they're gonna beat us out because they have the budget. That can be the case sometimes, but it doesn't have to be an or statement. It can be an and like, they can beat us out with budget, and we can still win where it matters. And as far as, like, the risk adverse ICP, oh, it's hard. Like, it's hard marketing to security people. It's even harder marketing to people who aren't very clear in like, what their titles are, especially if you're in a brand new market where you have an ICP, but not really, because depending on the organization, the team can look differently. They can be called something different, etc. And so that's where I say, okay, that's where you need that balance of brand awareness and paid targeting. Because the brand awareness, if you're saying the right thing, it will reach the right people. Takes more time, and you have to understand that, but you can't accomplish anything with one or the other, like it has to be both the effort and the money, and finding that balance and the the risk adverse ICP will. And they will come eventually, when they have the problem, when they have the pain, when they've heard it from the right person, and say, like, hey, we really need to pay attention to this. And if you've positioned yourself as the source of truth and trust, then you're kind of like one. You're already one leg above. And I know we're we're close to time, but I hope that that

Kerry Guard 1:00:23

helps totally over time. But oh my gosh, brand y'all, it's like it is, is long overdue. We should have been paying attention to brands so much sooner than we have been. But brand is going to be the key. The consistency part, the showing up consistently with your brand, with your messaging, with those keywords that aren't quite there yet, but will be. I mean, all roads are going to lead. I've been, I've been following Rand Fishkin forever, but recently he has been on this, like drum of brand, because it's going to be the thing that breaks through by showing up consistently, saying consistent things to your audience, and then them researching around the problems they're having, and you showing up that recognition is going to pay 10 fold in the long run. So yes to all of that, oh my gosh. I want to tackle the things that we can No, I know you're going to come back. This is gonna be great. You're gonna come back and we're gonna hang out, and we're gonna have and Juan is gonna chime back on in with all these amazing questions, along with Beth, we hope to see you next time. Thank you both so much for chiming in. I thank you. Kelsey Purcell, where can people find you? They want to know more. Where should they go?

Kelsey Purcell 1:01:38

Oh, just come stock my LinkedIn, get in touch with me and truly part of marketing, like, be a sound board with each other, and feel free to do that with me on LinkedIn. Don't like send me a really weird salesy message, but if you're just like, Hey, I saw you on this podcast, and that way I connect with you, and I know to like to respond to your message and then just soundboard with me. I'm totally open to that, and I feel like that's where we get better as marketers, especially, like, Hey, I might not be an expert, but what do you think about this idea? Totally open for that. I love it. I do it a lot with a lot of people that I know in the industry of various roles. You like, you just, I think, like, find me on LinkedIn. I think my LinkedIn. You tagged it. It's like slash. Purcell, Kelsey, so I'm staying really elusive, but we'll, we'll stick with the Kelsey. Purcell, there it is. Thanks, Elijah, there it

Kerry Guard 1:02:39

is. There is, before we go, Kelsey, you are clearly more than a marketer, even though you've been doing it for ever. What's one thing for 2025 that you are most looking forward to personally, to bring you joy, or maybe there's something already happening right now that's bringing you joy, but we need more joy in our life, so tell us what it is for you right now. Okay,

Kelsey Purcell 1:03:00

I'll do one quickly. I'll do one like, work related, and one not so. I've been doing walk and works where I go on, like, a one hour walk, 30 minutes out and back, maybe not even, like 45 and I do a like, brainstorm, outline, answer emails if I'm feeling like really Froggy, but I feel like that's really refreshing and really nice. Sometimes you just need to go touch grass. And that brings me joy, because I get to see animals and all the fair, yeah. And then the other part is I live at the beach, and I have had all of the things happening the last few years with two kids, so really want to get back into surfing and like, prioritizing time in the water with me and my kids. My husband's a phenomenal surfer, so that's really important to me, is like finding that balance, which can be hard, especially if you work from home, but so necessary, and that brings me joy, like going to see where I live and enjoying it. Just love it.

Kerry Guard 1:04:14

Oh my gosh. I want to say so, so Guernsey. They swim all year round in the freezing cold water, because apparently, is so good. It's on my bucket list. Before I leave Guernsey, I will go swim in like, the dead of winter, because apparently it's, like, amazing for your mental health. There is something powerful about the water, and I am so here for that. So I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep asking Kelsey, if you've been out swimming, we're gonna make it happen. You should? We only scratched the surface of the conversation that we so wanted to have. We ran out of time, and there was just too many good questions to leave them open ended. So thank you for your time. I will have you back

Kelsey Purcell 1:04:54

like please, and we can just have podcasts and tea time and coffee. And one and one and Beth can join us absolutely all day. And then seeing Beth and I was my brain was combining the two. Elijah, Beth, no, both of you,

Kerry Guard 1:05:17

all of the above. We'll see you next time. All of the above. Well, stay tuned for Kelsey in part two, we will get that program for you all. I promise. I'm so grateful, so grateful. Thank you all for listening. If you like this episode, please like subscribe and share this episode to you by MVG marketing, the digital marketing agency that helps cybersecurity and complex friends get found via SEO and digital ads. It's hosted by me, Kerry guardian, COVID of MPP marketing, and if you like to be a guest, DM me. Oh man, love to have you all on. Thank you all so much. Thank you to Elijah, my podcast sidekick, and we'll see you next time. Bye.