From Rebranding to Team Building: Elizabeth Hague's Tech Marketing Strategies Unveiled

Overview:

Welcome to Tea Time with Tech Marketers, where we bring you live dialogues with industry leaders. 

In today's episode, our host Kerry Guard welcomes Elizabeth Hague, a tireless underdog champion specializing in protecting and growing revenue for pre-IPO companies.

 They delve into the importance of building and leading marketing teams, navigating the rebranding process, and the challenges faced by startups in hiring product marketers. Elizabeth shares her insights on the evolving role of HR, and her community involvement and offers networking opportunities. Join us as we explore the intricacies of marketing strategy, team building, and the joys and challenges of leadership with Elizabeth Hague.

Transcript:

Kerry Guard [00:00:03]:

Hello. I'm Kerry Guard and welcome to Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders. Welcome back to the show. We are live and have been now, I think, for the last few months, so hopefully, I can stop saying this. That'd be fantastic. But if you are here with us, the beauty of being live is that we get to have a dialogue with our listeners. So, if you are here, comment away. I am paying attention.

Kerry Guard [00:00:26]:

I think Elizabeth is as well, and we are looking forward to your questions. But it'd be great to know if you're already with us, So say hello. Let us know where you're joining from, and maybe throw out a tidbit. I don't know. Say hi. I am so excited for this show. Today, I have Elizabeth  Hague. I'm not gonna say that right.

Kerry Guard [00:00:45]:

Hague. Oh, spot on. Look at me go.

Elizabeth Hague [00:00:48]:

I'm impressed.

Kerry Guard [00:00:52]:

Doesn't seem to be stopped moving. A woman after my own heart. She is a tireless underdog champion, board advisor, book published invited collegiate speaker, and community voted one of the most remarkable women in Georgia by Ellis, thanks to a tireless pro bono mentorship of female business entrepreneurs and artists. Elizabeth specializes in protecting and growing revenue for pre-IPO 10,000,000 to 100,000,000 ARR companies through customer obsession. A 15-year brand and content marketing expert with a high growth mindset, full-funnel marketing leader, and cross-functional partner. Many of my many of her clients and companies have been acquired or partnered with big names such as Four Seasons, Whole Foods, Target, Meijer, walmart.com, and more. Just some name-dropping there because, you know, why not? She is a leader of leaders, and she says her achievements are all thanks to her incredible brand and marketing teams. Though I would argue, that she's responsible for putting those teams together, so credit where credit is due, Elizabeth.

Kerry Guard [00:02:07]:

And what a great you. Because this is where we're gonna go with this conversation about building teams, and I Can’t wait to get there, Elizabeth. Yes. Thank you for joining me.

Elizabeth Hague [00:02:18]:

Thank you. for such a great intro. I appreciate you.

Kerry Guard [00:02:22]:

I stole that I take zero credibility for taking that right off your LinkedIn. What a beautiful thank you for doing my job for me. I appreciate you, but what a resume. What an honor. Before we dig into the team building piece of that, I agree we are all here thanks to the amazing people who Have joined in our journey, and we're gonna talk about how to unpack that. But 1 I'd love to hear from you. Like, those are all wonderful aspects of your career, but the beauty is the journey. So tell us your story.

Kerry Guard [00:02:56]:

What do you do now, and how did you get there in your own words? Although those were your words, but, you know, new words.

Elizabeth Hague [00:03:05]:

Yeah. So, I specialize in pre-IPO 10,000,000 to 100,000,000, and that is a huge range. And it's Annual recurring revenue for anyone out there that's like, what is AAR? It's annual recurring revenue. So, yes, I try. So this one thing is I try not to I'll use acronyms, but I try to spell them out too because I never assume, and it's not fair. I was in a meeting with someone recently in retail e-commerce, And they said something, and I was like, hold on. What is it? And it was like, BFD something, whatever. And I was like, Black Friday Cyber Monday deals.

Elizabeth Hague [00:03:42]:

It was like an acronym for that. Anyways, tangent. So a story in my own words, that's a huge gap. Like, 10 to 1000000 is a massive gap. So, I have basically been a chameleon in my career and focused predominantly on that customer obsession piece, looking at the business strategy of the businesses I work with, and how I came up to where I am now. I used to run an agency working with, that 10 close to that 10,000,000 range, and some of the businesses I worked with were not really delicate, really sensitive, just breaking into the 1st 1,000,000 in revenue rate, which is really,  scary. It's a really sensitive time, And I specialize in that customer obsession piece that through brand, through business structure, and talking about the core aspects of the company, and there would be, like, a lot of different little threads we would pull on. Right? So it's a huge range, but it's satisfying work.

Elizabeth Hague [00:04:43]:

It's interesting work, and  I've seen a lot.. So there's a lot to talk about today, I think, especially building teams.

Kerry Guard [00:04:54]:

Yeah. And it sounds like you've also I sort of I so Mike Cross is our connection. Thank you, Mike. Appreciate you. One of the things he said to me when I was walking into our prep call was don't talk about brand or rebranding. Like, she has done enough of that. We don't need to rehash. Like, we do not need to rehash that, but it goes to show, that I'm experiencing this right now too.

Kerry Guard [00:05:16]:

Like, that delicate balance is, like, where you need on sort of your big grown-up pants, and you need that rebrand. And I can see why you sort of become, like the rebrand guru and having done this time and time and time again. Yeah. I don't wanna, like, unpack that because we have a different story to tell, but I do wanna know, like, for anybody who's going through that right now, what's the one  piece of advice you would give them in that, like, crest of, like, getting to that million and then, like, making that big leap to adulthood?

Elizabeth Hague [00:05:54]:

Oh my god. So much advice. And my Mike's so sweet. Thank you, Mike. Because I know when I talk to him, I was like, oh, I'm the change management person. I'm usually the person that, like, comes into these organizations just like, just kidding, guys. Your baby is ugly. We're gonna have to fix, and that means it's gonna mess up a lot of stuff.

Elizabeth Hague [00:06:13]:

Are you ready? I hope we can make friends. I don't know. This is gonna suck, and I'm here to help advice in general, don't do anything by committee. Have strong balance and focus. Knowing who you are and and knowing who you are as a business and having a business strategy requires so much. I mean, you have to have People who've done this before 1000000 times. It's a rebranding that is extremely risky. It's not as risky in the beginning when you have, like, You know, 0 funding and no audience.

Elizabeth Hague [00:06:45]:

You could do whatever you want. But, you know, the minute you start getting into, like, oh, I have product market fit, And I'm I have something here that could potentially IPO, and we need to fix this brand. That's when it starts getting really, really serious, and you need to be very, very careful. So don't design by committee. Pick experts, and just know that change management is a change management exercise, and you need someone who's excellent at change management and comms because that's the magic sauce of Anybody who’s doing a rebrand. Just reach out to me, DM me on LinkedIn, and I will help you get the right resources in place because, lord, I have seen heads roll for making mistakes on these kinds of projects. I've seen things crumble. I do we gotta do a whole do a whole other line.

Kerry Guard [00:07:30]:

No. It is. I'm experiencing this right now, and everything you said just made my heart pound. I've done 3 reprints. I'm sorry. No. It no. It's it's validating Like, the struggle is real, and I've lived it, and I'm not alone and, like, amazing because I've done a rerun by committee, and I and the middle person wasn't the decision maker, and the committee was on the other side, so that was super painful.

Kerry Guard [00:07:55]:

And then I just I'm doing a rebrand, where I'm talking decision maker, but he has a team behind him, and he wants to make sure that they Feel like they have what they need from it too. Like, it's a balancing act, and it's really it from, like, the business side, it's, like, super hard, and so yes to everything you just said. Every experience is a new experience. Keeping these things in mind, but, like, Also enjoying the ride as you go. Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:08:26]:

I mean I know. Yeah. And I hate to freak people out, but I do want them to take it seriously. You know? Like, I hate to be like, it's a big scary thing. It is. But it can also be joyous and exciting and, You know, open up a whole new revenue avenue possibilities, especially if you're tying specific, like, product launches to it. If you have a really great go-to-market strategy and, like, trust and autonomy, there are just so many benefits to it on a positive side. If you're going through reburn right now, Carrie, just I will sidebar.

Elizabeth Hague [00:08:58]:

Like, whatever you need, I will encourage the living crap out of you. Whatever you need, just let me know. I'm happy to be, like, I'll be your cheerleader. I'm happy to help you out.

Kerry Guard [00:09:09]:

Like, there are bumps in the road, but the struggle is real. But I but the but it's so rewarding on the other side because, you know, you do it for all the right reasons. So, anyway yeah. Elizabeth is the rebrand guru. She's been through the ups and downs, and most importantly, through this, It's the team you build to join you on the adventure. So before we get there, hi, Trevor. So good to see you. Speaking of cheerleaders, Trevor Van Werten, y'all.

Kerry Guard [00:09:36]:

He is always in my corner, and I'm so grateful that he's here. Trevor, looking forward to your questions. Before we get to our core conversation, Elizabeth, around team building, depending on where you are in the adventure that is of being a company and the stages of being a company. I do wanna understand, like, what challenge you're currently facing. Like, where are you right now? What's hard?

Elizabeth Hague [00:10:00]:

Just, in general as far as, like, team development or what I'm looking for in the next team I build.

Kerry Guard [00:10:05]:

So Like, universe, Wherever you are right now, like, what it it could be about the topic or not. Like, just, like, what is top of mind, and what is hard for you right now? Interesting.

Elizabeth Hague [00:10:13]:

Yeah. So, I am actually going through a little bit of a career transition. The ultimate endgame for me is eventually sunsetting myself onto boards. I'd love to be a board member. That's like the ultimate 10, 15, 20 years, like, sunset golden age kind of goal. So I just got my 1st, advisory board role, so balancing that and learning. Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:10:43]:

All of that. And, you know, it's like it's interesting and kind of I've always been on the other side of the fence of, like, convincing this mysterious board of all of these things this revenue driven, like, things that I have to. So now it's interesting to be on the opposite side of it, and we're gonna be learning quite a bit. So that's what’s gonna be fun and cool. And I feel like that's the next step for me of kind of learning more about this process. So I'm just bringing, like, a lot of curiosity to it, and it's not necessarily a problem. It's just like a new thing, a new problem to solve, you know, like, what don't I know? You know, where so the humility and lack of ego is super helpful at this point because I'm just like, I don't this is my 1st advisory board role. I'm an expert in this.

Elizabeth Hague [00:11:28]:

Tell me yeah. Tell me more. You know? So Well, Siarga, I think it's gonna be great. I'm really, really excited.

Kerry Guard [00:11:34]:

I  love that transition you're making. I think it makes so much sense, and I think we're all sort of asking that question, especially as well-seasoned marketers, I guess that's the word. We've been around the block. We've seen a lot.

Elizabeth Hague [00:11:54]:

How can moisturizer? Our skin skin regimen is on point.

Kerry Guard [00:12:00]:

Covering up those grays. Yes. All the things. I think the question becomes, like, now especially as, you know, as you go up the ladder within an organization, like, those CMO roles get less and less. Right? There can only be really 1 CMO within any organization, and we're all fighting for it. So, like, what's that next step and I Mhmm. I think board advisory makes sense. I think fractional makes sense.

Kerry Guard [00:12:26]:

I think, you know, Build your own adventure and how you can create the next generation of marketers. We've sort of yep. In our own growth, have sort of left a generation behind. We sort of forgot to bring that generation along, so I think we're all playing catch up right now of, like, how do we How do we backtrack and bring them up and make it happen? So I love yes. Board. Yeah. Go team.

Elizabeth Hague [00:12:52]:

Yeah. That's the ultimate goal. We'll see how it's a very rare thing, especially for women, you know, executives, to be on these boards. You know? The future is unknown. You know, the only you know, there's it's only up from here, so there's lots of possibilities. You know? But the thing that you just said about, like, mentoring, it kinda dove tales into, like, building teams. We're gonna talk about that. But,  I've been a huge, like, proponent for mentorship.

Elizabeth Hague [00:13:18]:

I still mentor. I take at least, like, 1 mentorship Call a week, just volunteering my time, 1 or 2. There's a couple of different platforms I work on to help, like you said, bring that the the next generation of people behind me up because I've had some really great mentors in my life, but not in my twenties. I didn't really get mentors until my early thirties, you know, and, like, By then, it's like we're asking questions based on habits. We've learned that  it's hard to unlearn those habits, and so I do a lot of volunteer work. It's one of the reasons I ended up winning an award for it is because I volunteer so much of my time because I think it's important it's important to be able to have someone to ask blunt questions and be like, What in the absolute hell am I doing? And is this even remotely in the universe of, like, is this gonna make me successful? Like, all the things we were terrified of coming up as baby marketers ourselves. You know? It's like marketing is the wild west, and it's there's almost no rules. It's like the WWE.

Kerry Guard [00:14:19]:

You gotta make it up as you go. It's true. Like, there are some guidelines based on our, like, experience and gut, but overall best practices. Hang it up as we go.

Elizabeth Hague [00:14:29]:

And if you gotta kinda, like, create a persona and, like, you gotta, like, get in there and be known for something, and so you're like, I gotta promote myself. How do I do this? I'm like, so, yeah, it's just the whole thing. 

Kerry Guard [00:14:39]:

So yeah. I really think that's interesting. I'm gonna sit here for a second and, because I'm struggling with this too. Like, I see I sort of harp on this with I have a, like, behind the scenes crew that I chat with, and we're doing something on the side, which I'm excited about sharing eventually. But I sort of, like, post them every once in a while about these posts that pop up of people pontificating, and they're saying very smart things, and I agree with them, but they're all men. And so, like, as with like, we need to do this as women. Like, we have things to say too, and I don't know what it is about, like yeah. So I agree with you.

Kerry Guard [00:15:23]:

I love that you're putting yourself out there. I love that we're doing this yes to more of this, and we're gonna create clips of these things and all of the wonderful smart things you say and get it out there because, we have a different perspective, and I think that's worth bringing to the table. So, yay. Mhmm. Yay. Just let's talk about team building, Elizabeth. There are different stages you mentioned. There's this huge range of the 10,000,000, even the 1,000,000 to the 10,000,000 to the 100,000,000.

Kerry Guard [00:15:51]:

So let's start at those little baby startups who are, like, figuring it out and deciding that marketing is what they need right now. I have questions about that for the 1,000,000. And I don't think we need to sit here very long, but I wanna help those companies because there's so many of them right now who are trying to make, like, do I bootstrap this? Do I go get investors? Do I put money into marketing? Like, do they need a marketing team?

Elizabeth Hague [00:16:20]:

A team may be not in a formal sense, like, you know, full-time employees. Framework and strategy? Yes. I mean, it's never too soon to, like, think through how because let's be honest. A marketing organization or an organization in in general at a company should be a reflection of a couple of things, and predominantly, it should be a reflection of communication. Right? So customer experience, how do we treat the customer, and in what ways are we taking care of the customer? The organization should be structured, especially the marketing department structured in that way. Retention, attraction, all, you know, all of that should be thought through, But the other part of an org chart eventually needs to be very obvious to internal employees. Like, if I were to ask about x, y, and z. What department would I even go to? And so, like, those 2 core principles, those are, like, HR Classic gold standards of, like, work chart building.

Elizabeth Hague [00:17:19]:

If you're not thinking about that in that, like, I'm getting serious. I'm, you know, breaking the million in in revenue. I'm about to about to, like, get investors. I think you're you're missing out on a lot of, like, And you're you're kind of setting yourself up for some more heartache later on, you know. But as far as full time employees, If I was to build, like, a marketing function out of breaking into breaking into, like, 1,000,000, my biggest concern as a CEO or founder would be, or even a board advising somebody doing this would be like product market fit. Are you sure? Are you a 1000% sure? So that research of the customer journey and buying experience, like, product marketing to me would be that gold standard, like, 1st hire. Because I mean, after that, it's like, okay. If we've got product market fit, then we can talk, you know, content.

Elizabeth Hague [00:18:12]:

Then we can talk about growth and demand gen. Then we can talk about comms. Then we can build something here. But without product market fit, mhmm. I don't know.

Kerry Guard [00:18:23]:

I don't know. 2 things I wanna say about that. The first thing is yeah. Very interesting you're talking about product marketing because having a live show next Tuesday about the rise of product marketers so yeah. Well, that's fitting of, like there is this sense of if you don't I feel like as marketers, we're sort of burnt out on working for brands and products that don't work.

Elizabeth Hague [00:18:51]:

Stephanie. Well, I mean, to be honest, let's let's be candid about the market we just came from, you know, post-COVID market, COVID and post-COVID. I mean, we just came off of a huge boon of, like, unicorn companies and, like, people putting growth above, you know, profitability and all of these investors just dumping market like, money into the market. You know? And so was there really a concern about the product being good when growth is the most important aspect of the revenue model, like, you know, like, profit above all, you know, like, so, I mean, yeah, now we're facing the tougher economy, you know, tougher market, a tougher customer, you know, customer buying experience. So people are kind of like, oh, crap. I,need to expand, and these customers are dumping out of like, if you're a B2B SaaS, they're dumping out of your, like, sales cycle because they're like, this product sucks, and it's not helping me, and competitors is doing this better. Like so people are freaking out and scrambling. It makes sense the demand gen and product are the most important things right now, you know, economically.

Elizabeth Hague [00:19:58]:

Product market fit for the win.

Kerry Guard [00:19:59]:

Yes, Trevor. I think we're all there of we're, You know, I used to say I worked on a long time ago, I worked on Yoplait, and I used to say it's only yogurt. Like, I can't It's only yogurt, and I can't get upset that for what I'm doing and things not quite panning out, like, let's keep it real. So  I do think a lot of us are you know, and that's one very, you know, a very long-Long winded example from a long time ago, but it sort of, like, encaptures where we all are off we can't make it work anymore.

Elizabeth Hague [00:20:37]:

Mhmm.

Kerry Guard [00:20:38]:

We between the product market fit, but then also, like, believing in the product as a marketer trying to make trying to put of and belief behind something. Like, I have to actually would I buy this? Like, that's sort of a question I have to ask myself, like, if I'm gonna put myself in the buyer's shoes, would I would I invest in this? One question I have for you on the 1 1,000,000 mark and the smaller team, and then I wanna move on. As you said, like, the 1st hire eventually should be that product marketer, which I love, but I also wonder if there's sort of this rise in the fractional elements or the contractor element, do you think it needs to be a full time hire? Do you think even, like, hiring somebody from an hourly standpoint just to poke their brain and say, hey? I'm trying to figure out to make sure, like, before I launch that I have a thing here. Can you help me figure out if I have a thing? Yeah. Yeah. Does hourly make sense?

Elizabeth Hague [00:21:38]:

It absolutely does. I mean, if you're looking at it, this is just a business strategy standpoint. Right? Like, it does not make sense to hire anyone full time if there's no sustainability and proof of, you know, product market fit of any kind. That's a dangerous thing for I mean, they do people do that all the time, That is a dangerous thing. I mean, mostly, if you're like, say you're let's pick an example. Right? B two b product tech tool something. You're probably your 1st time your first full time employee is probably gonna be, like, an engineer or something, you know, like, So It should be. I mean and then, you know, maybe your second would be a salesperson.

Elizabeth Hague [00:22:19]:

You know, like, marketing is probably not really gonna come into the scene until, like, 3rd maybe 3rd. You know? I don't know. It just depends on what your Business model is in, like, what your runway looks like and  what kind of funding you have if you're bootstrapping it, if you're not. It's different if it's like a services based thing. It's like, do you know do we wanna invest in partnerships versus marketing, which could be technically, a function of marketing, like, how do we wanna structure this? So there's a lot that goes into it. I think there's nothing wrong with hedging your bets with a fractional CMO, fractional, you know, advisor board member. Come mhmm. Board members coming up through agencies.

Elizabeth Hague [00:23:01]:

And I see that very commonly, like, supplemental work being done even in the 100,000,000 to Plus whatever, you know, $2,000,000,000 unicorn valuation, whatever. I've worked in lots of teams that have supplemental, you know, like, we're are literally saying our growth strategy is to leverage agencies. You know, this is a very common thing in marketing. So I think it's a good strategy if it fiscally makes sense.

Kerry Guard [00:23:27]:

Mhmm.

Elizabeth Hague [00:23:28]:

Especially so early on and you can't promise. Like, your money needs to go to a different department because those are the things I like are making the money right now.

Kerry Guard [00:23:35]:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:23:35]:

That makes sense. That's logical, you know.

Kerry Guard [00:23:39]:

2 things I wanna say about that. 1 is chances are if you're just growing or just starting the 1,000,000 mark, you don't wanna hire an agency. I actually kinda wanna beg you. Please please don't. I am an agency. I'm speaking from agency experience. Don't hire an agency. You're not ready, and that's okay.

Kerry Guard [00:24:01]:

Find a single marketer who is a bit of a generalist, a jack of all trades who can make shit happen for you. I yeah. CEO who can do sales before hiring? Yes to that. Like, do not hire an agency. The other thing I'm gonna say in terms of being at the 1,000,000 mark 2 is shake those trees, man. You have a network. Like, get out there. I love what Trevor said.

Kerry Guard [00:24:29]:

Yes to being a CEO. Yes to being your I hate to break it to founders. This is really hard, especially if you're a technical founder. This is out of your comfort zone, like, real hard, but, like, you're the 1st marketing hire. That's true. You gotta get out there. You gotta figure out who in your network is gonna help you sort of get to those first few clients. Right? So, yeah, you're not don't hire an agency.

Elizabeth Hague [00:24:59]:

Yeah. Not unless I mean, not unless you're trying to solve one very specific problem that you have that is very well defined because it's true. Right. It's just gonna be a waste of money. You know? If you're looking for someone to fill that, like, full time gap or advise or whatever, individual consultant, you know, like, con contract, fractional is always better. I've seen a lot of my own, like, agency and I used to run an agency, so I can it's like, I'm not even immune to this. But a lot of my own agency partnerships fail at the smaller scale start ups mostly because critical pieces were missing that I could not provide that agency that we're like, we've got foundational issues here. Oh.

Elizabeth Hague [00:25:40]:

You know? So if we can get in there work on

Kerry Guard [00:25:43]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:25:44]:

It eventually is too there's too much friction. And and we all kinda know it, and we all have to break up, and we're still all friends and stuff. But It's true.

Kerry Guard [00:25:52]:

Which is The struggle is real. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's why we started offering fractional, like, ahead of marketing services because we just wanna make sure that the foundational elements are there before we start bringing the big guns. Right? The SEO and the digital ads. I just actually said to a potential client, I said, I looked at your website. It needs some love, and I think I could easily get it there, and I do not feel comfortable spending any media, like, not even a little bit of media money advertising money until we get this situated. It is not worth it.

Kerry Guard [00:26:28]:

We're gonna just throw money out the window. So can we let's get let's button up here? Yeah. Minimally. The amount of experimentation. Yeah. Mhmm. It's crazy.

Kerry Guard [00:26:38]:

Yeah. It's really helpful just to have and I even said to somebody who was on my show last week, I said, you know, she's a bootstrapper. She just created this lovely product, a cybersecurity product. She's a solopreneur. She built the thing from the ground up, and she's just figuring out our marketing, and I was like, just give me a call. Like, I  just wanna make sure you're spending your money wisely, and marketing is a black hole to just dump your money. So let's, you know, just just ping me. We got you.

Kerry Guard [00:27:05]:

Yeah. Because it is. It's really tough when you're in those early, early, early stages. Okay. Let's talk about that 10,000,000 stage. Okay. You've raised some serious capital or maybe you have some good clients, and you've shaken those trees until the nth degree and the trees are bare. And now you need, like, real you need to put on your big, you know, big, dull pants and, like, grow up a little bit.

Kerry Guard [00:27:25]:

And so mhmm. What's that stage in terms of you're just you're that 1st marketing hire? Who do you need to be to be that 1st marketing hire? Who do you need to look for that 1st marketing hire, and then where do you go from there?

Elizabeth Hague [00:27:40]:

Yeah. At the stage of if you have, like, annual recurring revenue of 10,000,000 and you've got enough runway, and you're starting to get investment, and you're trying to do hockey stick of growth. My suggestion for the marketing department specifically is to take a look at, like, your three critical functions and what the strategy will be moving forward to grow those 3 critical functions. The 3 critical functions are product marketing, and content, which is I mean, you could define that in brand comms. You can define that as organic. You can define the content of some form and then growth. I don't people love to call that demand gen, but I would rather growth calling it growth marketing is like a lot. I'm we're seeing a lot of jobs on the market right now saying growth marketing, growth marketing, growth marketing.

Elizabeth Hague [00:28:25]:

I think this is gonna be a thing that's kind of, like, more encompassing outside side of just demand gen. The classic term is demand generate generation, whatever. It's so funny because it's not that old of a term.

Kerry Guard [00:28:35]:

It was I prefer both. Yes. No. I love that. Let's break this down for a second. Let's talk about the product first. We sort of touched on it of, like, having your 1st hire, be that product marketer, what is their role and function in your opinion, and what are they supposed to accomplish for that brand in those early, like, 1st 90 days.

Elizabeth Hague [00:28:57]:

Yeah. And it, again, is really relevant to the business structure, I mean, it's different for a services business, like an agency, that's providing a service because that's a completely different model. You know, we're talking like the org the org chart for marketing might be completely different. I would still argue products would be really important, but they may sit in a different function. They may be more connected to, like, customer success, asking about, like, NPS scores or not NPS scores for service, but, like, satisfaction the CSAT Customer satisfaction scores. Thank you, everyone. So, so that I mean, it's a different model for services.

Kerry Guard [00:29:36]:

Yeah. For b two b SaaS, you know, it's like product marketing.

Elizabeth Hague [00:29:36]:

You know, the question of, you know, are they still as connected to sales, are they more connected to partner marketing or partnerships? You know, when is this a company that's gonna be heavily involved in, like, launching a ton of new products? Do they need to focus on, you know, researching the customer, customer buying journey, and persona developing persona per project and or per product launch? So there's a lot of different ways you can spin how a product fits in your org, and it's gonna relate very closely to the business structure. So you have to obviously like it's not a business unless you have a business strategy first. Sure. Yeah. But understanding the customers is, you know, and how you wanna sell to the customer is integral to how you're structuring these particular, like, pieces and these leaders of these functions.

Elizabeth Hague [00:30:27]:

Right? So you would assume that you have a CMO, then you would have because growth, content slash brand, organic, whatever it is, web, And then, you know, product. It's like these 3 functions are the core, like, the gold standard of, like, where to start in great marketing teams, But each function and how they work could vary greatly based on, like, what the business is trying to do. You know, if you have 1 product and you're not launching anything else, A product marketer is gonna get bored if they're like, I already created personas. Now what? You know? It's like, maybe they need to be maybe they need to sit in between marketing and sales. You know? Maybe they need to, like because there's a lot of different structures we carry together.

Kerry Guard [00:31:09]:

There's a lot of different structures. But at the end of the day, what a product marketer is there for correct me if I'm wrong because I've talked to a bunch of product marketers and they've been very focused on a couple of things, content mostly, but at the end of the day, It's about understanding, to your point, product market fit, being very close to the customer, understanding what their problem is and how the product solves it, and that's the fit. Is does it actually is there actually a problem, and do we actually, like, have a solution here? What the competitors are doing because we do wanna pay attention to competitors to a Great. Do we wanna compare ourselves and try one of them? No. But we need to know what's happening in this space to know how we sit. Are we building a category? Are we up against the grind in terms of we're all doing the same thing, but we have these few differentiators? What does that look like? And then How we message those things out to Mhmm. The audience.

Kerry Guard [00:32:02]:

Is that sort of like from everything I've heard today, this is the first time I said it out loud.

Elizabeth Hague [00:32:10]:

And one thing I would add too is we're talking very heavily about buyers' journeys. So we're thinking from that content and demand side. So not just, like, developing personas. So, you know, it depends on because a buyer's journey can be very complicated. So that's like a full time role just like assessing, triaging, especially if you have, you know, like, an insane amount of cost say you have, like, thousands of customers. Right? It's, like, different for a services agency that maybe only has 10 to 20 a year and has, like, a lifetime value contract per customer of, like, 5 to 10,000,000. You know? Mhmm. It's a completely different buyer's journey, a completely different product marketing like fit.

Elizabeth Hague [00:32:49]:

I mean, there's just, like, a lot to unpack there. So, I mean, product marketing has the key and information that demand and content the brand really is going to need in order to be successful in developing creative and ad sets and a media spend and selecting events and developing communication. I mean, just as simple as, like, blog posts. How what voice and tone are we using to talk to the customer? Like, we need customer information. So it just depends on, like, it depends on, like, the business model. I know you keep saying that, but, like, just thinking

Kerry Guard [00:33:21]:

Those are the thinking through it.

Elizabeth Hague [00:33:22]:

You know? It's like and how often the customer sentiment changes and measuring that, and it's a lot. And some of that falls within brand team because there's some function that you can, like, say you have enough say you're past the 10,000,000 and you're, like, 50,000,000. Right? Now we have time to, like, do social media listening and, like, get a social media manager and start competitive analysis and boolean queries on, like, the sentiment out there in the universe and getting real feedback from customers, you know, getting on Reddit threads, you know, just depends on the business model where you are, you know.

Kerry Guard [00:33:57]:

Yeah. One thing we didn't touch on that I think is important here is does the p does the product marketer then becomes the head of marketing. Like, does if they're the 1st hire wants to out. Right. Because then they start driving all these things. 

Elizabeth Hague [00:34:14]:

You know, I think it needs so it depends on how unified you want your org to be and how much, like, what's your go to market strategy? Right? Because it should your function should be led by a CMO, technically, and then you should have additional so the function of marketing should be led by a single leader to unify all the voices of whatever disciplines because Let's be honest. Product marketing is really important, but it is just a discipline in marketing. It's not the end all be all. Right? So there are additional functions like, I'm a brand person, and a brand person could argue all day that I come before product, and then you can get a fist fight happening in the room. I don't do that because I don't that's not I'm like, I need to work hand in hand with everybody because there's this is a chicken and an egg situation. Nobody comes the business strategy comes first. Not one of us is more important. You know? So but  I mean, you need that unifying, like, figurehead at the top that's delivering that business strategy to the functions, And then you need the collaborative functions to understand, like, your go to market strategy.

Elizabeth Hague [00:35:20]:

And that go to market strategy needs to be owned by not just marketing, but, like, the org in General. You know? So there needs to be a seamless connection across the company with like you all need to be speaking the same language as sales. You all need to understand, like, customer or partnership, whatever that function is over there that's taking care of the customer, cross selling, upselling. So, I mean, there's just like, If we're talking like, yes, the 1st person to hire would be product, are they a CMO? Now we're talking about getting, you know, a business person who may have a different viewpoint, but their experience is like executive level. Maybe you don't hire an executive level person in that 1,000,000 range

Kerry Guard [00:36:01]:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:36:02]:

Because you just need to Yeah. 

Kerry Guard [00:36:04]:

You needto Right? Like

Elizabeth Hague [00:36:05]:

Yeah. You just need to break your sleeves and have someone get shit done.

Kerry Guard [00:36:08]:

You know? Like we're talking about yeah. I mean, that's what we're talking about on Tuesday is, like, that generalist. Right? So the beauty of a PMM is they are a bit of a Swiss army knife in that because they understand product market fit because they understand your audience because can write than the channels are like, they can write newsletters. They can write, you know, automated email copy. They can do social media posts. They can sorta get you somewhat of the way there to get the ball rolling before you get a back Phil into those roles. Yes. So I yes to that and the power of the Even what Trevor is saying is evangelism, which I wanna get to in a second.

Kerry Guard [00:36:52]:

But let's talk about so you have the product marketer, there's a product market fit. Maybe you're starting to think about bringing in that head of marketing now because you need to build out the next function, which is content, brand web, and all of the above.

Elizabeth Hague [00:37:06]:

Or growth with or both at the same time depending on what you have in your runway. 

Kerry Guard [00:37:12]:

But you need an executive to look at the org to really build out an executive level structure. I think that would be correct. Yeah. And decide what that next thing is. I would argue that you probably need the content web piece next because you don't want to be spending money in demand if you don't have that.

Elizabeth Hague [00:37:30]:

It depends. I mean, right now, like, Looking at the economy right now, people are desperate to be profitable. Right? So then this is common. I mean, you and I have just before we went live, we talked about how long you and I have been in the game. We're like old salty sea dogs. We've been doing this forever. So, like we were talking about tech. 

Kerry Guard [00:37:49]:

We weretalking about the type.

Elizabeth Hague [00:37:52]:

Oh god. The anxiety of the the call at Skype is like, ugh, god. I mean, realistically, like, how many times have you and I go through, like, a boom bust cycle of companies kind of, like, you know, having dips And these peaks and valleys of profitability versus, like, kind of freaking out and firing their whole, like, sales and marketing team and being and being like, and you gotta go and you gotta go and you and we gotta fire all of our creative designers because we don't need creative anymore because they're just trying to be more profitable. You know, so it's like, you know, we're talking about, you know, do you invest in brand, or do you invest in growth? Do you invest in both? You know, there's a there's a this is a math problem. You know? This is also getting with the head of people problem and talking to HR about what are the most critical functions that we need right now in order to keep the business just the doors open or running and growing. So I don't know if it's necessarily like there is a golden standard framework. It's more like, what is the business facing, and do I have the buy in from the other executives that are hopefully shouldering the burden with me? And can we build the functions correctly for long term sustainability while also getting short term gains? You know? It's like Sometimes the game right now.

Kerry Guard [00:39:09]:

It is. Yeah. The struggle I definitely feel is real in companies trying to figure this out, and I think that's why they're hiring agencies too early because they think agencies are the answer. If they don't have those foundations like we're talking about, then the agency is gonna fail because you don't have that product market effect. You don't know who your audience is. You don't have the right messaging to meet the audience where they are, and then you're trying to throw money. You know, it's not a leads game. And then layer on the whole new buying journey of, like, people not really caring about talking to Sales until they are absolutely ready and wanting to make their own decisions and having enough content to help them make that decision.

Kerry Guard [00:39:49]:

I mean, that's a whole other ballgame we're not gonna get into today. But  it is this the the industry has definitely shifted in, like, the last 18 months, and we're all just trying to catch up. And so I love what you're saying around these 3 functions and yes it really matters to where your business is and balancing these Singh's. But let's talk critical mass here. Like, where have you seen you've been around the block? You have lived it in more ways than one. And where have you seen the pitfalls? We're gonna talk solutions too because  I truly believe and if you're gonna talk about a problem, talk about the solutions. But where have you seen pitfalls of, like, CART before the course? Where you went after leads before you had brand or vice versa and what do you wish you had done differently in those moments?

Elizabeth Hague [00:40:42]:

Yeah. I think one of the biggest reasons why I am so focused on interdependencies between departments, not just in marketing, but across the organization. I'm very collaborative with Sales, customer success, or slash partnerships, whatever we wanna call that. I want to know what's happening in those other departments is because the reason is because I have seen this specifically fail where I've had a CEO say, it is all on marketing. Marketing needs to produce the leads. This company is driven by marketing, but the reality of it is that it's the systems need to be aligned and balanced with each other. So if marketing is over here generating an insane amount of leads and pushing them through sales and say they're successful, but the product is stinky and there's no, like, custom because it's have you seen winning by designs like a bow tie, revenue architecture? I'm such a huge fan of it. So it's like attraction retention.

Elizabeth Hague [00:41:44]:

It's like a bow tie. Mhmm. Look it up. Chaco is amazing. He's amazing. Go look at his stuff. Buy his new book. Shout out to.

Kerry Guard [00:41:53]:

Yeah. Right. So we put it in the in the show notes to everybody. Yep.

Elizabeth Hague [00:41:58]:

Yes. Go to winning by design. You can go download their, like,white paper about it. It's their revenue architecture. It's very, very interesting, but, essentially, like, the way that most of these organizations are built is very lop, and the the pressure and the ownership of the revenue success is usually placed on marketing and then sales or marketing and sales. But there's this whole, like, customer journey. So I'm a huge fan as a brand person from that perspective of, like, the work that I do touches every part of the business. I mean, we're talking employee retention, top like employee talent retention through, Employer Brand.

Elizabeth Hague [00:42:36]:

We're talking customer retention through, like, delivering on the promises I make in marketing messaging. So looking at this, like, bow tie kind of Funnel, you know, we're talking about, like, attraction coming through and into this particular, like, center where they book, whatever it is, this b two b SaaS. Right? They book the product, And then the bow tie goes back out again. Right? Because you can generate leads all day as marketing, hit your numbers, or whatever, But if the rest of the system is freaking broken, if it's just, like, probably it's stinky, like, it has buggy features, People are, like, you know, doing demos and then never, like, committing after their trials. You know, they're bouncing out of the system. They use it for a year and then die off because they don't see you. It's like, okay. Like, marketing can only go so far.

Elizabeth Hague [00:43:24]:

There are competitors out there, and the total addressable market is only so big. I can only get so many people in the freaking door. Like, at some point, we marketing also needs to kinda, like, come back together in alignment with how are we, you know, keeping these people happy. And as a brand person, it's like, if I'm gonna be making these promises up front and it's not being delivered through the system. Like, marketing is broken. This is broken to me. So yeah. 

Kerry Guard [00:43:51]:

So how do you have this Yeah. So how do you have those tough conversations? Because we're as marketers, we're always brought in after the fact. Right? The product is already being built. Generally, I have found I'd love your perspective on this, and I think there's merit to saying bringing us marketing in sooner. You don't have to have a product fully built before you bring in marketing. Like, start that engine sooner. But, like, we're brought in later than Right. So how do you like especially with founders who have put their their souls on the line to, like, bring this thing to fruition?

Kerry Guard [00:44:33]:

Right? We've both owned agencies. I own an agency right now. And, like, 2 years ago, we couldn't, like, pull the sand on my cold dead hands like it's been my identity for so long. Right? And founders feel that way about their about what they've built. So how do you have those tough conversations to say, There is a there is a problem here, and we do need to solve it, but how we're solving it where I have alignment. Right? Like, that seems like a really hard conversation to have.

Elizabeth Hague [00:45:02]:

Yeah. I mean, we're talking change management, and so this is a similar issue with rebranding. Right? Your baby is ugly and it's broken, and we need to fix the broken thing, and it's gonna be tough. And as with a rebrand, it's like everyone's on board. So it's like, how do you develop change management? You find the people who are gonna be on board with you. So those are the people that are standing shoulder to shoulder with you, seeing, like, that they're struggling as well. You need to talk to them. You need to, like, you know, get buy in early and often and have conversations and see where it goes.

Elizabeth Hague [00:45:33]:

I mean, we're all human. We can all improve. We can all do better. A CEO's main focus is to make sure that the build the systems they're building are sustainable because they are helping, like, feed families and provide jobs, and they wanna make money too. So if you are able to get buy in, which is not easy to do. It can be done, but it's not easy. It's just you need proof. Right? So you need, like, you know, finding these models, like the winning by design one, and kind of having those conversations.

Elizabeth Hague [00:46:03]:

And Maybe it's not an overnight thing. Maybe it takes forever, but, you know, finding the organizations and the CEOs that are willing to listen and, like, the boards that are, you know, experienced at this, have before, you know, like, offering solutions. You know, I think it's it's an uphill battle, but, like, I mean, If you wanna be successful, it's a conversation that needs to start happening. And at minimum at minimum, marketing needs to be a partner to more than just sales. Marketing needs to take a look at, like, what's happening in customer retention, partnerships, and customer success. I'm really understanding, like, If I'm bringing these people in, what's their final experience? Like, are the promises I'm making in these messages, in these ads, in our go to market strategy? Are we lying? Because that's we got some adjusting to do, like, you know?

Kerry Guard [00:46:51]:

Yeah.

Elizabeth Hague [00:46:52]:

So yeah. Tough. 

Kerry Guard [00:46:54]:

I think that's why the it's such a tough role it's such a tough role to be a CMO, and this set paints such a beautiful picture of, like, how tough it is. A couple of questions. 1 is when you're when you're the head of marketing is brought in, you're seeing some of these challenges unfold and you have 90 days. Right? Like, you generally, CMOs are put under the gun of, like, you're brought in because we have a problem, and we're having turnover. We're we have turned over. We've let our old TMO go. We're bringing in fresh blood here. Like, it's your job to fix this, And you have 90 days to start showing progress.

Kerry Guard [00:47:33]:

Like

Elizabeth Hague [00:47:34]:

Mhmm.

Kerry Guard [00:47:35]:

I mean, where do you start? Do you start with those conversations? Do you start just, like, just putting in a framework and going? Like, how do you Where do you start as Elizabeth in, you know, being that 1st hire or coming in into that change order?

Elizabeth Hague [00:47:54]:

The best thing I learned as a child that has helped me throughout adulthood and in my career and my personal life is, to be honest and assess a situation and just tell people in clear communication upfront what is and is not real or possible. Because the reality of it is, like, no CEO that is sane should expect because we know some of them, hey. You know, they've got you know? But a part of it is educating, but your framework builds out that level of communication and setting the expectations. You are driving that as the head of marketing. So to say, like, Elizabeth, you're being tasked with, like, you know, customer retention. We need to get people in and blah blah blah. You know, like, okay. Cool.

Elizabeth Hague [00:48:37]:

1st 90 days, we'll we will accomplish these 3 things. However, the vision is a year from now. I'm not saying you won't see results until a year from now, but I'm saying these are the results you should expect along these, like, critical moments and milestones. So being able to own that confidently and say, like, these are the promised things and then be able to continuously drive that drumbeat of communication and say, remember when I said if day 45, I would assess the team to make sure we have the talent put in the right place? Here are the results. You are delivering on those pieces and also letting them know ahead of time if you are not able to deliver because you found a critical roadblock you need to raise your hand and say, We do not have product market fit, or We do. We have the wrong agency or, you know, whatever heart we have the wrong people on the team, and it is not functional. You know? So that's your job as the executive on the team is to have those hard conversations, but to have your road map in place, There are some critical milestones. And if you can continue to do that drumbeat of communication, the I mean, They'll the CEO is supposed to sign off on it, so it's like he'll let you know in the 1st week if he's like, I don't like this Plan, you know, or or she or whatever.Ideally. Ideally.

Kerry Guard [00:49:55]:

Yeah. No. I think that's the point. Like, we're talking a lot about buy in and having those critical conversations. The last thing I'm curious about in terms of those critical conversations is it seems like and you alluded to this, but I just wanna be sort of because because I've experienced this in my own journey of owning a company, and I think that's 1 thing we need to be really clear about.

Kerry Guard [00:50:23]:

Like, as a head of marketing, we love doing the doing. It's so fun to, like, be the one building, but you do get to that point and where we're talking about that 10,000,000 plus point, like, you're no longer doing the doing, you're keeping the peace.

Elizabeth Hague [00:50:40]:

So A brilliant way to put it. Very very diplomatic of you.

Kerry Guard [00:50:45]:

So in keeping the peace, You have to go have individual, something we weren't very clear about that I wanna be clear, individual conversations. You're gonna be in meetings all day. Right?

Elizabeth Hague [00:51:00]:

This is my favorite part, though.

Kerry Guard [00:51:02]:

I love talking. Tell me more about that. What is your favorite part? What do you love about it?

Elizabeth Hague [00:51:06]:

I just love people in general, and I love to talk about, like, difficult things that we're in it together. Always approach things as a partnership. You know? And we you know, one of the things that you mentioned earlier is, like, I'm give a huge shout out to the teams underneath me to, like, Say, like, you guys are the reasons I've been you are the reason I've been able to accomplish even remotely any of the stuff in my career. So it's like mentorship and partnership and commiseration and collaboration and being side by side with people and having the hard conversations and getting the buy in and getting the pushback sometimes in the disappointing days. Those are the things that  I live for, and I think that's what a manager or leader could be even middle management. Like, that should be a passion of yours because if it's not, you're in the wrong I mean, you should be doing the work.

Kerry Guard [00:52:00]:

You should be an IC er or an adviser or something more like a contractor, like, don't lead people.

Elizabeth Hague [00:52:00]:

Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:52:05]:

And that's okay. And we need to be clear too. Like, that is where there is a reason why Microsoft has created a Two way path for the technical and the manager. You're either a people person who's gonna lead and bring people along, or you're a technical, you're gonna solve really big, challenging technical problems, And those paths are okay depending on what works for you. But it does take a certain person. And sometimes I question whether I'm that person of, like,

Elizabeth Hague [00:52:31]:

Some days, no. None of us are that person.

Kerry Guard [00:52:33]:

Yeah. It's hard work. It's hard work, and it feels

Elizabeth Hague [00:52:37]:

And you don't get you don't get recognized either you don't get a pay bump for being a great boss. It's actually a pain in the butt to be a good boss. It is. It's a lot of extra energy. It's kinda hard.

Kerry Guard [00:52:47]:

Yeah. Super hard. It's super hard. But it's so liberating, you know, bringing people along and elevating them and making them the heroes at the end of the day. And that is truly the gift of of leading. Closing words here, Elizabeth. We talked a lot about leadership. We talked a lot about team building, depending on where you are in the stage of whether you're that very early start up or you're in that 10,000,000 year growth.

Kerry Guard [00:53:12]:

Last Words of wisdom. Is there anything we missed that you wish we said that we haven't said yet?

Elizabeth Hague [00:53:19]:

I'm sure every HR head of HR is gonna murder me for something I've said during this time. So go talk to your head of people. Shout out to every VP or, chief people officer, like, go talk to them. Don't just listen to me. Get outside perspective as well. So, yes, I just wanna acknowledge. And a lot of the ideas I have have come from just talking to amazing VPs the people, head of people, chief people officers who are just been so generous with their time, and just been like, you know, hey. This is what I've seen work.

Elizabeth Hague [00:53:55]:

So HR can be scary, but they're actually, you know, really good resources and and really good partners to have, especially as an executive. Like, They're the people that kinda make or break some of those relationships. So definitely go make friends with the scary people. They're dying for friends anyway. Nobody wants you're right. 

Kerry Guard [00:54:13]:

I know it's not terrible because they're really no part of the company that, like, makes it it's really tricky. It's a balancing act for them of, like, protecting the company, but also wanting to be there The people, it's so yeah. I do love this shift that's happening for HR to people in communities where it's becoming more about protecting the employees in a way to then help the company, and so I'm grateful for that. And I agree, like, They have ears to the ground in ways you would never expect. So if you wanna understand how a company is connected and what's actually going on, Mhmm. Those are definitely the people to be talking to.

Elizabeth Hague [00:54:54]:

And then I've had great as a brand person, I've had great partnerships with brands, employer brands. Like, mostly, I'm marketing function. I don't often get to work in employee brand, but just having that connection to HR is a really valuable relationship for someone like myself who's a marketing executive, you know, and, like, I'm able to give that advice and help them with employee retention. And in turn, you know, I get to ask them questions about, like, how can I best encourage my team and grow my team? You know? Like, how can we solve some of these problems to retain this talent who's incredible? You know, I hire some amazing people underneath me to help accomplish these, You have things that  I want to do in my own career, and so it's it's very important to have that relationship when you're building a team and having that partnership. Whoever that HR person might be is kind of an overlooked gem, and they've they're an excellent resource, and they're they're gonna be your friend and a great partner. So, yeah, definitely definitely get with them.

Elizabeth Hague [00:55:54]:

Marketing people focus so heavily on, like, partnering with sales. I think oftentimes, you know, they don't talk very much about partnering with the other executive heads.

Kerry Guard [00:56:03]:

I love what you're saying about it. Oh, the last thing I'll say about this is what I love about your saying is that it's also like a two way street, like, you it's a given it's a give and take or give and give, however, however you wanna phrase that. Like Mhmm. I do, luckily, I'm a marketer, so I could figure this out. But, like, to my team every week, I do 2, essentially, newsletters. Right? But not all HR departments might know how to do that. So, like, there definitely is an opportunity to create some inter like, Q, company, marketing materials that HR you can empower HR to Do yes to that, Elizabeth. I love it.

Kerry Guard [00:56:43]:

I love it so much. Before we close out here, such wise wisdom. It's gonna be great to recap this and reshare it. I can't wait. But you're more than a marketer. And while you are the rebrand guru of the century given the journey that you've lived, tell us about you know, we've mentioned the last 3 years being the wild, wild west between COVID and the new and, you know, everything's been going on. But as a person, like, what's been the change for you? Have you picked up any new hobbies? Have you explored, like, gone traveling? Like, What has changed for you outside of work in the last few years?

Elizabeth Hague [00:57:25]:

Yeah. What a cool question. I'm still super passionate about volunteering. I'm part of, the a d adplist.com. It's a free Volunteer platform to connect with all sorts of people so people can book any time with me that they want. I think it's super cool, and it's free. Like, I just meet you for coffee, like, for an I have, like, an hour or 2 each week that I volunteer, and so that's fantastic. But just in personal life stuff, you know,  I dedicate a lot of time to playing on a women's only pinball league, believe it or not.

Elizabeth Hague [00:58:01]:

We do tournaments. A couple of years ago, they did, like, a big charity thing to help get a pinball machine at the children's I'm in Atlanta. So the children's hospital, they had, just to give them something different to do's so the babies aren't, like, bored out of their boards, just watching TV all day while they get their treatments or whatever. So it's super cool. So little things like that. You know, the Atlanta community is incredible. It's bustling. We've got so many cool start ups and so many cool things happening.

Elizabeth Hague [00:58:27]:

It's like you can't help but get involved, and there's so much talent here. It's insane. So there's a lot to do and a lot of people to meet and talk to you.

Kerry Guard [00:58:35]:

That's amazing. I haven't heard I haven't heard about the pinball thing before, which is awesome. I love that.

Elizabeth Hague [00:58:43]:

It's a national thing, so you can join wherever you are. I'll  hook you up.

Kerry Guard [00:58:47]:

It's a lot of fun. I'm thinking about that. No pun intended. Totally. Close this out, Elizabeth. If people wanna find you, where's the best p where's the best place to reach you and learn more about, you know, be you being a board member.

Elizabeth Hague [00:59:04]:

Yeah. Come and connect with me on LinkedIn. It's just the regular LinkedIn URL and follow Elizabeth at the end, Elizabeth with a z, not an s. You can also book time with me on the ADP list. I like I said, it's free. I volunteer there, and you can just come and have coffee with me, it's the place I direct everybody, but I'm easiest to find on LinkedIn or ADP list. I love it.

Kerry Guard [00:59:26]:

Thank you so much for joining me. Shout out to Trevor Van Worten for hanging out. I saw your comments, and I yes. Growing children and gotta get through those terrible twos to come out the other side. And, man, what what a growth opportunity that is with all the things, whether it's a child or a brand is a journey. I'm so grateful. Thank you all for listening. If you found this episode helpful, please like, thrive, and Share.

Kerry Guard [00:59:53]:

This episode is brought to you by MKG Marketing, our agency that accelerates the mission of b-to-b vendors via SEO, digital ads, and Analytics. It's hosted by me, Kerry Guard, CEO and co-founder of MPG marketing, music mix, and mastering are done by the amazing team at MKG. And if you like to be a guest, please visit, you know, just DM me. Let's hang out. I'd love to get to know you. Let's do that. LinkedIn, head on over there. Elizabeth, thank you so much.

Elizabeth Hague [01:00:18]:

Thank you. This was fun.