Decisive Leadership

Transcript

Opening

Hello, I'm Kerry Guard, and Welcome to Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders.

Welcome to Season 13. We're kicking off the fourth year of podcasting with an amazing lineup. What a way to end 2022 with amazing guests with the forethought of not just marketing but leadership as a whole. How they lead their teams and think about engaging and connecting with their audience is an awesome way to kick off this season with Patrick Garrity.

On this episode, I had the absolute pleasure of standing, walking, and riffing with Patrick Garrity. Standing desk to standing desk, we dug into how to be decisive. As marketing leaders trying to grow tech companies, you have to make 100 decisions a day, which can get overwhelming and daunting. Patrick somehow has managed to find his way through that. He shares how he's been able to do this daily while moving towards lofty goals, and getting the magical thing about how Patrick does this is that he gets buy-in from key stakeholders every step of the way. It's not just about making decisions, but how you make those decisions and then bring people in along with you to agree to those decisions that you're making fast and furious.

Patrick Garrity is a Go to Market specialist with over 15+ years of experience providing marketing, sales, and product expertise to high-growth SaaS startups with a primary focus on Cybersecurity. This is important because cybersecurity audiences are unique in their own right and how you have to market to them. And so when you're a startup and cyber, you can come in and make thoughtful, clear, decisive decisions regularly is mind-boggling.

One thing Patrick and I talked about is that he has no problem doing this. He did experience burnout, and we touched on that. And this is an important conversation for leaders everywhere to know that you are still human as hard as your job. Life is still real, and you have an important job to do, and how you can do that in a way that doesn't cause a huge mental health fallout.

I am thrilled to kick this whole season off with this conversation. Put on your trainers, grab your headphones, and walk with us.

Here’s my conversation with Patrick.

Conversation

Kerry Guard: Hi, Patrick. Thank you for joining me on Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders.

Patrick Garrity: Hey, Kerry. How are you?

Kerry Guard: Good. Thanks. I’m so excited to have you and to have this conversation.

Patrick Garrity: Thank you so much.

Kerry Guard: Before we get there, share with our listeners, Patrick, what do you do? And how did you get there?

Patrick Garrity: That's a great question. I'm VP of Marketing at Nucleus Security. I just joined a little over two months ago. Previously, I built a lot of different or helped scale a lot of different cybersecurity companies. I was part of SVP operations, building sales, marketing, and product at Blue Mara. I helped spin the census out of the University of Michigan. I was the eighth employee at Duo Security, and we went on to have an acquisition with Cisco. I think there were about 800 people there. I started as an ADR if you can believe that. AVR account executive, I guess, both functions and then took over sales engineering, built sales engineering and then moved to Europe, did the European operation restructuring and moved back home and took on product marketing. I like to play a lot differently.

Kerry Guard: Where are you in Europe?

Patrick Garrity: I was in central London.

Kerry Guard: We're right there.

Patrick Garrity: We lived in Holland Park, where my wife was. We have to live near Kensington Palace.

Kerry Guard: Along with goals, I like that. I appreciate her a lot. I'm in the UK, so it's a great spot. You've always been in cyber security, then?

Patrick Garrity: Relatively speaking, about ten years now. But previously, I was in more of managed service provider business space. I had my geek squad at one time; that's originally some of the entry to tech. It's very hands-on technical at one point, but not so much.

Kerry Guard: I wish you all the time.

Patrick Garrity: You can still make time. I get into our product, which is important for many marketers. If possible, you should try and get hands-on with your product because it allows you to tell the story better. I am a marketer. I log into our product. I create the videos of the demos and try to be involved because then you can explain it better to prospective customers.

Kerry Guard: Definitely. I think you're in a good spot when you come in relatively early, which it sounds like you've done every time.

Patrick Garrity: This is the latest stage company I've ever joined. I think it's Series B or A; I'm not sure. I should know that. But this is probably the latest stage company I've joined. And how big is a company? We're now approaching 75 employees. We're over 50. In the last quarter, we just grew over 50% employees quarter over quarter, which is exciting.

Kerry Guard: Exciting. It's crazy to think that it's a 50- 60 percent company, and there are three marketing people.

Patrick Garrity: Half the company wasn't here at the beginning of the year. Everyone's coming up to speed. We're all learning to work together, which is a lot of fun.

Kerry Guard: That's so cool. I read this interesting article on LinkedIn about cybersecurity burnout, and you've been in cyber for ten years. It seems that you're not losing any speed.

Patrick Garrity: I burned out. Before this job, I was off for six months, still doing stuff and other projects. I think burnout is real, and people need to realize that it's not the industry's or your employer's responsibility. So for that, I think that it's more important that you need to solve that at an individual level is probably most important. Employers should encourage you to see a lot of important mental health focus. But for myself, what was harder was high ADHD and high anxiety. If I could, I would work seven days a week, and when you're in cybersecurity, you can work seven days a week. I believe it's more about self-control. It's about mental health and mindfulness, and then it is much of an industry responsibility, if that makes sense.

Kerry Guard: No, it's a two-way street for as much as we want to do for business as it from a business standpoint, as a business owner speaking from that place, as much as we would love to do all of the things for employees and still make money. It's a tough balance. As an employer, I'm trying to do everything I possibly can between the PTO days and the mental health days, then making sure that the health care we provide has therapy in it, and you know, as much as possible, but I agree with you. It can all be there, but you got to take advantage of it too.

Patrick Garrity: I'm not saying that employers don't have the responsibility. As a manager, I'm always asking, “when are you going to take a vacation? Do you have enough time for yourself? Are you getting time off? We're thinking about when I'm pinging people on slack or email and just trying to be more. I'm not great at all these things, but we can do things to make it better for everyone.

A good example is that I just took a week-long vacation. I didn't get into not working until Thursday of that week. It’s not the best example, but sometimes you must hop in, and certain things must get done, right? And just being mindful, I'm only going to take these two-hour meetings on these three days and nothing else. I had those times, and then it gets you thinking about work, then you do those things. From a personal perspective, I was just happy I got four or five days where I ended up not working or thinking about it, which is helpful. So just having that re-balance of prioritizing and figuring out how to shut off.

Kerry Guard: I love what you're talking about with your team. I think that's from a manager's standpoint. It’s important. As a manager, it's easy to get caught up in your world of what's going on and balancing the business as a manager and the goals that you've set versus also taking care of your team, which is going to be awesome, because we're gonna have a live roundtable about this in just a few months. So hang on to your hats, people. It's going to be great. I want to get back to the conversation we planned on having around leadership because through your journey and all these cybersecurity companies, coming in early and building the team that works best for you and what you need.

You have this level of decisiveness that I find fascinating in your ability to move quickly and make decisions but also balance when to and not to do that. Let's tell the story of where you are, and then we'll bring in pieces from your previous employer positions. If it's a small team of three, it's easy to make pretty fast decisions.

Patrick Garrity: You must be mindful of the larger company, what things I should do now, and what capacity I have. There are so many factors that it's easy to get caught up in, and many people end up being indecisive because there are so many paths to go down. In a startup, there are infinite possibilities of the things you could focus your time on. You could just sit there and think about making decisions and doing nothing, which I've observed people doing in startups, which is incredibly unproductive.

One of the things that I learned from Zachary Locker was that what's most important is that you make decisions. In every meeting that you're in, you're making decisions. The outcome of everything that you do is making decisions. If you come to a conclusion, make a decision, and do something, your probability of success will be much higher than the alternative, which is doing nothing. If that's helpful to understand, definitely focus on how we make decisions and get to an outcome quicker and faster.

Kerry Guard: Yes, to that. I find it difficult to make decisions. I don't have enough information. Do you ever find that if you walk into every meeting and have to be decisive, sometimes the outcome of the meeting is, okay, the decision I'm making right now is that I need this more information?

Patrick Garrity: Yeah, and then schedule a meeting to ensure you get that information. That's still a decision, right? That builds an outcome that gets you to the next phase. But how do I get to the next phase so we can decide? Who needs to get involved in the decision-making process as well?

One of the things, especially when I came in two and a half months ago, is what can I prune immediately in a decision process? It's as easy and simple as possible, not making people feel valued and heard. There's a balance there. You have all these different inputs, and people love to give their opinion on things, but it doesn't mean it's necessarily going to help the decision and outcome. It's finding the right balance with that.

Kerry Guard: You can collect all the information and all the data in the world, but at the end of the day, if it gets in your way, then is it the right information. People's opinions are important. I hear you're saying people's opinions are important to a certain degree, but the way that I approach it is that I don't pull everybody in and ask everybody the same question. I say, who needs to be part of this decision? Or who has the information I need to help me make this decision? And then I go directly to them, or I have a small meeting of just those key people. And then I put something together, and they say, “Okay, I need this piece,” Then I go pull that person in and build the narrative around the right people with the right information. I need to take it to the greater team then and say, “Okay, based on all the information I have in the data available, this is where I'd like to take this.”

Patrick Garrity: We should be decisive. We shouldn't have to ask everyone for permission. We have experience, and that's what we're hired to do. It's also having that confidence of; I'm going to make some tough decisions that maybe people might not feel included in. But I think it's in the company's best interest, and soliciting it for the full opinion. There are times when you want to get as broad opinion as possible. Sometimes you just know the right thing, and there's some gray area there, too. I can give an example. When we got acquired by Cisco, they dropped in my lap. I own product marketing for something called Zero Trust. They're like, “We need a Zero Trust strategy. We have a huge team that's already working on it. There are over 100 people involved. We want to be at the top of the Forrester Wave with Chase Cunningham, an industry analyst at the time with Forrester, and that's your job, right?” We cannot get input from 100 people and do this effectively. We'll never get there, so I recreated the team. It was six to eight people. Most of them worked at Duo. Everyone at all these people that were involved in this strategy was just pissed. I'm like, “Hey, I'm sorry. The intention here is to do what we've been asked to get a go-to-market strategy out and win this wave or be a leader. I deduct it, and I said, “we can do this with a team of six or seven people.” We might go to others to ask for advice and help, but we took on that strategy and ended up at the top of the chart. A lot of that had to use me coming into a newly acquired company and saying, “Yeah, I can do this. I only need a select amount of people. We don't need all these additional opinions in the room because it will not get value from that perspective.” So that's an example of some of the tough decisions that I consider to be pruning early, which allowed us to focus on spending the time to get the outcome we were looking for, which turned out well.

Kerry Guard: I find a team more than seven or eight on anything is too much. Is that crazy?

Patrick Garrity: No. And that's tough once you get to these larger companies, which have 150 people, 75 people on a WebEx or a meeting. It's how you even make a decision. And so, from my experience, all those people shouldn't be in the decision-making process. They probably should be more in the outcome-making process. I want to share the good news once we get there. I don't mean they don't have to come along the journey from the beginning. I think a lot of times, that's some misunderstanding that creates a lot of wasted energy and time, depending on what responsibilities different people in the organization have.

Kerry Guard: How do you navigate the politics of that? You made a pretty clear decision. It sounds like you were given the power to.

Patrick Garrity: You have to have alignment with the leadership team. I aligned with both Duo leadership and Cisco executive leadership on this. There were some tests where I was going to make these decisions. I have no idea how Cisco leadership will respond, but that was what it was amazing as Cisco leadership was. This is the direction we're going, and I had amazing advocates at the leadership level within Duo. So having that leadership alignment is crucial for you to succeed in these cases. When you're making big strategic decisions like this, and you have to own it, if we fail, that's on me. I felt that every day.

Kerry Guard: Oh, I bet that's tough to walk into. I don't know if you physically walked into the room onto people and said, “Listen, we're not going to go this way,” But even still, it's hard. It's hard to carry that weight, especially if you base it on your experience. You feel really good about it. It doesn't pan out as you assumed. You're going to have people looking at you.

Patrick Garrity: A lot of them were very technical. You're not qualified to do this if you don't have a CCIE. I'm not trying to discount people with those things or people that made those claims. I don't, which gives a different perspective. I'm a big advocate that you don't need a college degree and a certification to figure out what the right things to do are in most things. There's a lot of misunderstanding there; more or less focused on making the right decisions with the information you have, regardless of whether you're technical or not, is something that people should be enabled to do.

Kerry Guard: So how do you build that trust with leadership? It sounds like to be decisive, feel that you have the solid ground to make clear decisions, and know that leadership will back you without negotiating with them every five minutes. What was your strategy in building that relationship?

Patrick Garrity: You always have to be adding value first. If I just asked for their trust, that means nothing. But it's like, “Hey, let me go deliver things for your teams that are going to be valuable, that they're going to say, hey, this stuff is awesome, and this is helping me do my job better. Let me see what the needs of the leaders are,” It's better to focus on what people need on the ground floor than what the leaders think. It's a balance, and you have to be aligned there. If you solve the problems, especially in marketing, and go to market on the ground floor, more leads and case studies. All can impact marketing externally, but then it also goes up to management, where management will say, “Wow, the team's really happy. They have these assets and things, whereas sales leaders often ask, “Do you need some case studies?” We don't have any case studies. We don't have the leads we need. We need more lead volume. It's like genuinely getting ahead of all that and adding as much value as you can. You're going to have to make some tough decisions as well. In every position and job I've had, I have to make tough decisions. I think the best thing is you have to find the right companies and people to work for because if they're questioning your recommendations right off the bat and they won't let you do anything, then you have to have an uphill battle if that makes sense. I've been at Nucleus for two months. I made some tough decisions, and the founders have been incredibly supportive. “We hired you because you have experience,” They've turned out to be the right decisions a lot of the time, but those are the things that sometimes people struggle with, the CEO, CFO, or the CTO wants to do these things. You might know they're not the right things to do. But it's about understanding, having the conversation, and maybe figuring out the best approach. You also don't want to say no to all the ideas, so there's a balance in there, calculating properly and how to help build the right trust with those leaders.

Kerry Guard: Have you ever made a bad decision? I'm just curious.

Patrick Garrity: I make lots of bad decisions. You try not to make bad decisions twice, and you try to limit them. One thing I genuinely believe in is intuition. Some people have, and some don't. It's hard to overcome bad intuition, as I would say, from an experience perspective. So sorry for those out there that don't have good intuition, but I think there are certain learning things you can do to help that. Most people have genuinely good intentions and decent intuition. You're going to make the probability if you make decisions. You're going to make more good and some bad ones. People have good intentions, we should make decisions, and there's going to be more good than bad. Try not to make the same mistake twice, and you're probably in pretty good shape.

Kerry Guard: Two things you said there that I loved that I went again; one is your intuition, and some people might not. I think impostor syndrome and other things come into play when you stop trusting your gut. I have a feeling about this, somebody else is thinking about it, it'll be fine. When your guts are telling you, you should speak up about this.

It's hard to find your voice in those moments for people who want to be in the seat that you are in. They're working their way towards that. What do you say about trusting your intuition and building upon it, getting off that imposter syndrome, and letting that go?

Patrick Garrity: I can relate a little bit differently. I don't know that I have impostor syndrome, but I've experienced many people in marketing as great content marketers and great demand gen people across an organization. Marketing is pretty frequent and common product marketing, too. If you haven't this intuition in your head that something isn't right, it's probably not right. If you have a gut that if we do this one thing, it's going to be a home run, and then there's some gray area. Maybe you're not 100% confident, but you should do something, so I would just say that part of impostor syndrome is making decisions to be kind to others around you. I would say, and how you go about making decisions. I don't want to offend people. I don't want to be negative toward them, so I think that can also be an introvert. You just have to be okay with how I frame and say things and provide feedback in a way that's going to be productive. You're not hurting people's feelings or making a negative impact. Sometimes, you have to make decisions that don't feel good either, and that's a part of a job if you're going to be a leader anywhere. A lot of times, I have high anxiety. It's never fun when you end up in these circumstances where people can't do their job, or you have to make a change and things of that nature. But that's a reality once you become a leader or manager. You will have to make not only easy but tough decisions as well.

Kerry Guard: Yes, to all that, and I think that's so important. I think the idea of perception, and you keep saying this, if people can know that, you're making decisions with the best intentions. There is this trust that you have to put in the outside world that they will take the most respectful interpretation of what you're doing, which isn't always the case, especially if you're coming into a brand new situation. I don't know, taking over and saying, "We're not going to use the 100 people that you pointed to this, and we're going to use six people here." We're here. This perception builds that you didn't have the right intentions and you're not doing the right thing. You talk a lot about building the narrative, and I feel that comes into this. You can't just decide and then go with it and expect people to get on board. There's a story that needs to be told, right?

Patrick Garrity: I think part of it is building that trust. Even in many of my different roles, like you, I've acquired new teams many times. I moved out to Europe, which has an existing sales and marketing team. It wasn't working, so I had to move out there. I'm going to ask a ton of questions. I'm not trying to intimidate you. Let's take a step back. I'm here to help. I'm going to ask you to do things, and please be open-minded and try them because these things work, and they're proven. I know this is a different country and region, but people tend to be everywhere. Let's try what we know, and if it doesn't work, we'll have to go and try different things. It was really interesting—the first pushback is that you're not from here and don't know what you're doing. Sales are different in Europe, and so much pushback, and it's like, “Well, give me the opportunity to teach you, and let's do it the way we know works in the States. If it doesn't work, we'll then do otherwise,” It's not going to work. Have you tried it?

I'm seeing people that are open-minded, great, and cool. If you're not going to be open and try this stuff, I can tell you; you probably should find a job now. I'm not trying to be difficult. Your job is not at risk. If you choose not to do what we're recommending because things aren't working out here, the outcome will probably be that you don't have a job. And so sometimes you just have to put things very directly. In that case, when I moved out to Europe, I made about 50 changes in the first 30 days to that organization that I knew was right. So complete chaos, right? And then things normalized where a few people say, “Patrick is crazy,” I'm out of here. I understand. I respect that. This isn't for you.

The team that stayed, though, made more money. It was awesome. Some of them stayed at Cisco after the acquisition for several years, loving what they did. It's that aspect of communicating clearly, and I'm very transparent. If this isn't the right job for you, and I tell people that work for me all the time when I acquire teams that if I'm not the right manager, this isn't the right job for you. I'll be supportive and figure out how you get your next thing, internally or at a different company. But that's just the reality of high-growth, fast-based startups that might not be the right fit. We should be okay with that and be able to talk about it without fear of doing something because we want to do something else. I want people to be happy with what they're doing if they're not coming to work happy every day.

Kerry Guard: It makes perfect sense. It's a difficult conversation to have. When you're transparent and upfront about how this is going to roll, and when you do get into a situation where you start making decisions, hard, small, medium, or large, it becomes easier to have some of those tough conversations that might not feel so tough once they show up, because you're used to being in those positions to make tough calls. Do you figure this out?

Patrick Garrity: Oh, yeah. I found that there's an acclimation period where you date in the first couple of weeks and figure out where you're at within a couple of weeks. And that's when you start conversations with people like, “Hey, do you want to be here?” Because it might be in the cases that they don't want to be here, and a lot of times, people get on autopilot and have different roles. I think that was the case when I went out to Europe. Everyone kept doing the same thing, which wasn't working, but they didn't want to do anything different. They're returning to what they knew, which is common human behavior. How do I help influence that and help change it? You get more leads and money in the door in sales and marketing, and that's ultimate when people see they can win, and they're going to be happier and more excited. How do you get there as quickly as possible? I think about many of the questions on the go-to-market side.

Kerry Guard: One of the things you said earlier that I want to go back to is you mentioned how you built trust when you first showed up; you said to your team in London. I'm going to ask a lot of questions. How do questions feel hard to sit in without immediately jumping to problem-solving mode? How do you stay in the questions and not immediately want to put your mark on the answer?

Patrick Garrity: I'm probably the wrong person to ask that question, to be honest. In building high growth and moving, I am trying to make a decision as quickly as possible and if I can put it to rest. But sometimes, you have to collect a bunch of information and anecdotes that lead to coming to conclusions on something right over time.

What is the right thing to do?

Right now, on the marketing side, it’s like, "Hey, let me collect lead attribution the best that I can to figure out what's working so I can make investments in those areas, and that takes time to collect that information and get a better idea of how I make investments from a marketing strategy perspective. Or maybe there are other things I'm not doing out there that I should be doing, and other experiments we can try could lead to more leads. So I think it's just keeping an open mind and seeing what we can do to be different and tackle new opportunities that other people haven't seen or been able to take advantage of before.

Kerry Guard: Alright, two last questions for you. We're circling back to the beginning a little bit, which is good because we're coming full circle. The first question is, you're very decisive. You walk in, find the anecdotes you need, and make quick decisions. At what point are things collaborative, or are you just clearly a decision-maker? I'm not judging. I'm trying to understand. You said it, too, that there's a balance. What is that balance?

Patrick Garrity: You have to look at the actual decision that needs to be made. Here's a good example: I can make some decisions based on the level, such as business cards or other things. If I try and change and have a bigger branding strategy, I probably should include my CEO and other people involved because that will change the dynamic and look and ensure they're aligned. I think that's an interesting example of who I should include and when and how we should do this podcast. I and my partner in crime and demand generation can conclude and decide on that. It's who needs to be involved in this process, who owns it, and who is responsible. Do you need additional input to make the right decision? It’s another question to ask. I tend to love to work collaboratively with others and make decisions, but just knowing that if I included everyone in every decision we tried to make, we'd probably do 50% less of what we're doing today because of that costs. It's a balance. And the other thing is how you create an input so that in marketing, we can do new things that are other people's ideas making sure that you're on the sales calls on a weekly basis, making sure that you hop on calls with the sales team, making sure that you're talking to your security and research team.

One decision I made, for example, is we have a PR firm. On that PR firm call were our CEO and five other six other people. And I say, “This is not a productive time for you. It doesn't make sense. So let's remove you from the primary meetings. I'll pull you when we need to make a decision and when we need to collaborate.” But the executives didn't have time to give, and then it's like, “Oh, well, we have two security researchers over here who are excellent and engaging in PR that will pull them on demand when necessary. And now we saved the company and executives a ton of time. We can move more agile and quick. It's not that we're trying to exclude them from the process. It's how I get back to them and include them when necessary. So extracting the maximum value with a minimum amount of effort is an example of some of the decisions I made here, coming on board pretty quick.

Kerry Guard: I love what you're saying because meetings suck up a lot of time, especially when you're info gathering. It's very easy to fill people's schedules and calendars to get that data, but if you can join existing things that are already happening and collect that data as a fly on the wall, that seems a great use of maximizing your energy in those early days—last question for you. Coming full circle, because we talked about this early on, I just want to dig into it for a second: how do you not get overwhelmed? You said that you come in, and you have all these things you could potentially be doing or all these people you need to work with. It gets very easy to get blown and not know where to begin, what decisions you'll be making, or where to start. How do you get in the zone, stay focused and be decisive?

Patrick Garrity: I think a few things I get overwhelmed with. I have a chalkboard. I work in an old school. I made a new escape shop. I'll walk over, and I feel overwhelmed. What things do I need to execute and make decisions on? And I'll put them on the list. I have HubSpot up top, which we're working on as an SFDC migration; that's number one. Number two, I have a new hire starting next week, and that's number two. Number three is migration. I guess that ties to HubSpot. Number four is a technical partner; I need to knock that one out already. A lot of these, I'm not going out. The last one says "Neon Museum and pinball," which means we're going to Blackhat in Vegas. So I had this crazy wild idea that we could do something, so that was on Friday. I wrote these because I was like, what does Patrick need to focus on today? There will always be things you don't get done because there's an infinite amount of things, but refocusing and resetting yourself daily and your priorities.

Kerry Guard: I love that. I think that's so key to making decisions because it's so easy to get into, not get derailed. Your team comes knocking on your door, and that's a great problem for tomorrow.

Patrick Garrity: It's okay. There are things that it's okay; this isn't the number one priority. I'll get to it later. Sometimes I feel bad because I'm a little bit new here. It's two months in, and sometimes. I'm not super responsive on things that I don't think are high priorities. I can't do everything right. I'll use that as input. I have that information, and I'll try and acknowledge the people when I can, but it is a balance of information overload and the high-growth startup anywhere you go.

Kerry Guard: I hope everybody had a notebook during this conversation. So helpful. Thank you, Patrick. Before we wrap up here, I have just my people's first questions. We will get to know you beyond being VP of marketing. Are you ready? Have you picked up any new hobbies in the last two years, given the shift of COVID and remote work and all that fun jazz?

Patrick Garrity: Oh, yeah, like skateboarding, I got back into during COVID. I didn't have all the skateboards behind me. So that's been a big one. I learned how to juggle. I briefly became a TikTok influencer but am no longer on TikTok. There are probably 100 things. I'm constantly a very curious person, and I'm trying to slow down. I would learn new things on a daily and weekly basis during COVID. It's time in my life to scale back on that piece of it and have some sanity.

Kerry Guard: I love that, though. We had masterclasses going, Duolingo, Blinkist, and podcasts. I had it all done.

Patrick Garrity: I told myself how to solve Rubik's cubes because, during COVID, it's so desolate, and we needed something to do and put our brain to work and go.

Kerry Guard: I love it. It’s so good. Patrick, thank you. This conversation is so important and helpful. I appreciate it.

Patrick Garrity: It's been fun.

Outro

That was my conversation with Patrick Garrity. I hope you're feeling solid and making decisions no matter how big or small, no matter how often you make them.

The clear message I got from Patrick started is to make one small decision today and then build on that. The more decisions you make, the better decisions you'll make and the more clarity and iteration you'll have as you make them, so just start. I hope you feel more confident in moving your marketing team brand forward.

As you think about the decisions, you have to make on a regular basis. Follow and connect with Patrick Garrity on LinkedIn. Patrick shares content about Cyber Security, Go-To-Market strategies, skateboards, and hotdogs because we're all human. We all have lives outside of being marketers. Patrick has no problem sharing what he's passionate about with not only cybersecurity and marketing but also skateboards; you're sure to learn from Patrick and have fun.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders! If you found this episode helpful, please like, subscribe, and share!