Jen VanAntwerp on Building Inclusive Events & Community in Cybersecurity

Overview:

In this episode, Kerry sits down with marketing consultant and nonprofit founder Jen VanAntwerp to talk about an often overlooked but deeply important topic: creating inclusive networking spaces in cybersecurity—without alcohol. Jen shares her 24-year journey in sobriety, how that intersected with her career in marketing, and why she launched Sober in Cyber to offer safe, welcoming, and zero-pressure environments for connection.

Transcript:

Kerry Guard 0:00

I'm Kerry Guard, and welcome back to Tea Time with tech marketing leaders. I so appreciate each and every one of you who signed up for this event. And then I had to reschedule. I'm so, so sorry. Yeah, I had to go pick up my daughter unexpectedly, and she's good. She's fine. Just, you know, kids, no, I'm saying, but we're here now, and I'm so grateful to Jen for her flexibility. A little bit about Jen Van Antwerp before we get started, and of course, I lost my notes, which is so great. I swear. I'm organized. Here we go, with 20 years of experience in marketing and leadership roles in cybersecurity, health tech, healthcare and automotive industries, Jen offers a strong balance between business savvy and creative capabilities, leveraging excellent communication and interpersonal skills, she is able to cultivate strong customer partner media and Public Relations in her previous positions, she has managed all aspects of the creative and production process, to design and the developed the develop integrated marketing communication and ad campaigns. She has been honored to build and spearhead top-performing teams, providing the strategic guidance, training and support needed to meet and exceed business objectives. Jen, welcome, welcome, finally, finally, finally, finally. Welcome. Yeah, so grateful you're here.

Jen VanAntwerp 1:26

Hi, Kerry, so so, so excited to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Kerry Guard 1:31

So excited to have you. And you know that was a lovely little blurb. Thank you for doing my job for me. I appreciate you. That's one of the greatest BIOS I've ever read. So thank you for that, but you're more than a quick blurb. It's really about your story. So you know, what do you do now? Jen, and how did you get there?

Jen VanAntwerp 1:53 `

I am a bit of a Swiss army knife, so I, like you've mentioned, have been in marketing for a little over two decades, and my positions have kind of run the gamut. I know there's some contention with the word generalist, but I am a bit of that, because I've been able to do both the strategy and managing large teams all the way to being a solo marketer at an organization. And then I currently do a lot of contract work. So I'm a consultant. My company is called J Band Consulting, and we do marketing for early-stage security startups, and then my passion project. And I think a big part of the reason why I'm here and why I'm wearing this tie dye today is I have a nonprofit that I started about a year and a half ago. It's called sober and cyber. We do alcohol free networking events and different types of activities and engagements during security conferences. So the goal of that nonprofit is to really increase the number of alternative events and things that are just inclusive for everybody who want to go and and network without any pressure to drink. I started my career in the automotive industry, and I was in automotive for a little over a decade. Absolutely loved it, but started to get a little bit burnt out on, you know, helping folks sell cars. And so then I shifted gears, pun intended, and I went over to healthcare. And I was in healthcare marketing then for about seven or eight years, but the whole time, I had met my husband at the automotive dealer group, and he had started his career in security. When we first met, he was in it, he was desktop support, and I was in marketing, and my laptop broke, and that's kind of how we initially met. So it was a very, very nice little meet cute. So he had already started his career, and he kept kind of telling me, like, Hey, I think you would like this. I think you should apply for these jobs. You would love it. And I resisted, because I did really love healthcare, and I just kind of kept pushing back. But then I went to RSA with him in 2016 met a lot of the people saw what the industry was like, and honestly, it was just the people. I was talking to, a lot of folks about, you know, my desire, maybe, to transition into the industry. And I asked them, What do you love about your marketing? What do you hate about it? And everybody was really open and just not holding on to their cheese, and was just so excited to have another person interested in joining the industry that I just fell in love with it. And I've, I've never wanted to turn back as just such a fantastic community.

Kerry Guard 4:32

It is. It's so arms open. It's why I absolutely, it's the same reason why I absolutely fell in love with the industry too. Is the something that's so different about cyber than some of the other industries I've been in is there everybody's willingness, and that's why this podcast, I think, has been so successful, is is to share and all grow and learn together, realizing that we're all in the same boat of cyber, of. The security aspect of wanting to kind of save the world. And so it's just such a nice change of pace from people being like, Oh, I can't give away my secret sauce. I can't tell my right? I'm doing.

Jen VanAntwerp 5:12

The missions are powerful, the things we're protecting are critical, literally critical. I have clients in the OT security space. So these are things like, you know, our critical infrastructure that we're trying to protect, and the threats are changing so quickly, the attackers, attackers tactics change so fast that I think that's why folks are often really quick to share knowledge and Intel, because we're all, you know, trying to fight this battle together. And I honestly one of the biggest things that really, really won me over was I started to get involved with the cyber security marketing society in 2020 and just absolutely fell in love with the founders, with the people there. It's such a fantastic, close-knit community that, yeah, I've realized, yeah, these are my people. These are my little weirdos. I'm never going anywhere else. I absolutely love it. And honestly, everyone in this industry, the more you talk to them, you realize there are so many layers, the hobbies that folks in security have, even that are completely separate from their work environment. Everyone's just so cool.

Kerry Guard 6:15

It's, yeah, they all like, there's a vibe. There's just a really wonderful vibe, an authentic vibe, of really being able to show up as yourself and be accepted, which is not something you get everywhere. I came from the big agency side, and I started in New York City, so suiting up and going to work and yeah, like that was a different vibe. Totally different. And, you know, I put this, I put the armor on, and showed up and did my job. But it's nice to like not have to do that and to write and

Jen VanAntwerp 6:52

not to say that. It's perfect. We have our we have our bumpy bits. We have our times where, you know, there are blockers and barriers and everything, but it really is coming from the perspective of having worked in a few different industries, as far as like, knowledge sharing and people getting excited about folks coming on board. We still have all those entry level jobs that require, you know, 10 different certs that you know. I know that's a struggle. But when it comes to, you know, sharing, sharing their intel and sharing their best practices. People really are, you know, arms wide open, which is fantastic.

Kerry Guard 7:24

So open. One of the things you mentioned is being a generalist. And I, I feel this too, where I a bit of a Swiss army knife, but I still feel like I have my thing that I'm best at. I can do the other things, whether whether I want to or not, but I there's things I sort of prefer and feel like I'm better at. Do you have sort of a certain skill set that you tend to lean into in terms of your generalization?

Jen VanAntwerp 7:49

I do so I typically start with content content creation, Content Management. I let that kind of drive some of the other aspects, and that lends itself really nicely to like social media management, the areas that I'm strongest and really are in, you know, content strategy, social media and then events management. Now, especially with sober and cyber I'm like constant party planner, so I have a lot of experience in in that regard. Some of the other areas that I'll typically tap a specialist or get some other folks involved. I can, I can do the on the strategy side. When it comes to actual implementation, it's on the like the digital marketing side. I feel like that field changes so so rapidly and so quickly. Like best practices are constantly changing. So I it's been a while since I had my hands directly in digital management, so I typically tap a specialist for that, but yeah, content social, also PR on the PR side, I'm good at drafting content that optimizes really well for wire distributions, but I haven't had the time to really build relationships with media. So that's something that, like PR agency or PR specialist is fantastic about because they have those established relationships. Yeah,

Kerry Guard 9:06

I could talk about this all day, because PR is going to get more important as clms Pick up, but so I'm being able to write for it and then work with an agency to actually see it. I mean, wow, what a powerhouse of a combination. So that is awesome, before we move on to the next segment, if you're here with us, say hello. We'd love to know that you've joined us. Drop any questions comments below, and Elijah will hang out with you and make sure that we see those and we come back to them as the show goes on. If you are listening while we are not live and you still have questions, don't be shy. Drop them on in, and we will follow up with you asynchronously. I Pinky swear. Okay, Jen, let's talk about event planning so sober and cyber. How did you where did it? How to Start origin story? Okay? I guess from the beginning of where this came, how this came to be

Jen VanAntwerp 10:03

I was born. No, I won't go back that far, but it was a long time ago. So I got sober 24 years ago, a long, long time ago. And so I've been sober through working across a few different industries, and I've found different ways to navigate social events, like work related networking events. And while the industries that I've worked at are pretty different, you know, automotive, healthcare and no security, all of the networking events and the after hour events are almost exactly the same. It's typically been, you know, an open bar or you know, whiskey tasting or wine pairing, or a lot of things that just kind of revolved around alcohol. And I understand why, as a marketer, I've thrown a lot of those types of events before. I know that they're popular for a reason, but as someone who is trying to stay away from drinking myself based on a personal choice, I like I said, I found different tactics and tips, like, always have a beverage in your hand. That way people are less likely to just bring you something alcoholic or to ask what you're drinking. I'm very open about my sobriety or my desire not to drink, but not everyone is, nor should they have to be. It shouldn't really be a point of discussion, but it does come up quite quite a bit if you're not drinking at some of those types of events, just because it is so it is so prevalent. So I've found different ways to navigate those environments. There have been times where if I'm not feeling really confident or secure in my own sobriety, I'll just opt out. I've, you know, learned to give myself permission not to pressure myself to go into those situations if I don't feel really comfortable, or if I'm at a situation, at an environment, or a party and it starts to be a little hairy, I just get the hell out. So I've given my myself permission not to go, and I know a lot of other folks do as well, but that kind of sucks, because there are a lot of really great connections that happen at those events. There are, you know, continuations of discussions that might have started earlier at the booth. I joke that the close of a deal might start at a booth, but it closes at the bar, and that happens pretty frequently, where opportunities for career advancement or development happen at these, you know, after hours networking events. And so I always had this daydream of, like, how cool would it be to have a networking event, you know, a work related social activity where there was literally zero pressure to drink. And I didn't really see that happening. And so I started, initially, I started just kind of talking about the idea, thinking like, you know, because, of course, at first I over analyzed it and thought about it to death. And then I thought, I need to start opening my mouth and talking about this idea and just seeing if there would be interest from the community and the times that I started to talk about it, everybody was really welcoming and receptive to the idea, and honestly, very excited. So a year it was in July 2023 that I think I start. No, actually, it was March 2023 because I started with I created the website, I spun up a Discord server, and then we had our first big event right in between black hat and DEF CON in 2023 it was at the mob Museum, and it was a sober speakeasy, and we rented out part of their, you know, underground speakeasy area, and it was just, it's just exploded since Then, last year we had the same event at the same spot in between, you know, at the mob Museum. But this time, we rented out the entire underground bar. We had over 100 people there. Past closing hour, I had to do a little announcement, like last call for now on alcohol. It was crazy. It was the events have been phenomenal, and the response from the community has been overwhelmingly positive. So that's how I realized, like, Okay, we've got a good thing going here in this eight this isn't just something that I selfishly wanted to do, like, this is something that a lot of people are excited about, and not just folks who have, you know, there are a lot of people who come to our events who have never, ever had a problem with drinking, like they just don't drink at all. They choose not to drink, or maybe they are pregnant and not quite ready to share that news with their co-workers. So they know that if they come to our event, they're going to have zero, you know, nobody's going to ask, Oh, why aren't you drinking? There are a lot of folks who will come because they know they have a multitude of other events to go to that night or later in the week, and they're just kind of trying to pace themselves, but they still want to engage in like building those connections within the security community, and our events are a great place to do that with zero pressure to drink.

Kerry Guard 14:55

It's so important to network in person at cyber marketing con. I actually found the best networking to be in the lobby of the hotel after hours, like people like there, though I don't know if the bar was open. I didn't even really see people drinking. It was just like everybody hanging out, and I it was awesome. I think that it's so nice to now have somewhere to go to be able to do that such important networking in a way that is zero pressure, because there is an uptick around people not drinking, across the board, especially for the younger folks coming up. It's it's awesome and and surprising in a good way. How did you so you had this idea. You started talking to people about it. You had your very first event in March of 2023 it sounds like it's more than just hanging out at a bar that's mocktails. You know, you talked about this mob and the speakeasy aspect. Can you tell me more about how you think about these events in a in to make it engaging and to bring people in and invite them into a space that's maybe not traditional?

Jen VanAntwerp 16:08

Yeah, absolutely. So it's very intentional when I'm getting ready to host, like, a full sober and cyber event. So we also will, like, host or sponsor different mocktails at you know, regional conferences, if someone doesn't want to have, like, a fully dry event, I totally get that. It also is a lot of work to put those together. So we'll do everything from speaking with event organizers to help them learn how to make things a little more inclusive. But when I'm getting ready to do a full sober and cyber event, the main things that I want to focus on, I want people to be able to, like, hear each other at the event. One of the biggest benefits is being able to talk and connect. And I'm sure you've been to a lot of networking events where the music is so loud that it's almost impossible to hear each other without, like, spitting right across from each other. And that's that's not fun. So I want to make sure that people will be able to hear each other. It's a nice, cool, fun vibe, but we do still have, we've got some good tunes, but the main event is the, you know, the connections and the people there. So I want to make sure that people can hear each other. There's food. There's going to be like, actual food, not just like tiny little appetizers on sticks. We want to have real, actual food for people to eat. One of the benefits of not spending as much money on the alcohol. There are a lot of these venues that do have food and beverage minimums, so you have to meet this minimum threshold. And since we're not spending it on alcohol, I can pick, like, the really nice platters or some of the hot plates to feed people, yes, and then I want to have places for people to sit. I think it's usually a mix of, like open spaces for people to mingle. But typically at the conferences, we're running around all day, people are going from one event to the next. I want there to be like little clustered seating spaces where people can actually sit and visit, like get into deeper conversations with folks so you can hear each other. You will have real, real, honest-to-goodness food. You'll be able to, like, sit your butt down for a little while and actually hang out and then that that fourth item is really delicious mocktails. And I just want the event itself to be so much fun that even if somebody has, like, never had a mocktail before or never been to an alcohol free event, when they come like, oh my god, that was so much fun, I want to come again, because our events are open to everyone, the only requirement, obviously, is that don't come there. If you're drunk already, like, just be respectful of that. Don't don't come there if it's going to be triggering for folks to see. Obviously, exactly you think we wouldn't have to say that, but yes, don't do that. But other than that, everyone, everyone is welcome. I really want people to come and see you can have not, not even just as much fun. I honestly, I know I'm a little biased, but I think it's even more fun because you remember the conversations that you're having, the engagement level is so high. People are they're connecting on deeper levels. Because you don't have folks that are there just for the open bar or the free drinks. I mean, maybe they're there just for the free mocktails, but that's a little weird. I think the folks that are there are there for the right reasons, because they want to connect with other people within the community. It's magic. I love Yeah,

Kerry Guard 19:29

the four pieces are so are so key and not something people always think about, yeah. And so what an environment to be able to actually go and network?

Jen VanAntwerp 19:45

Yeah, I think a lot of times, um, myself included, I've been guilty of this too. As a marketer, I'm thinking of like, I want to be able to have as many people in the space as possible. I want to make the vibe, like, really hip and happening, although I probably don't sound very hip and happening, since I just said hip and happening. Definitely wanted to, wanted to feel like a party. And a lot of times we've that's become synonymous with, like, standing room only and so loud that we can barely hear each other. So it's a different vibe, but it's one that's been really successful. And one of my favorite parts, especially at the events that we have, where it bumps up between black hat and DEF CON, is you'll have people there, you know, dressed to the nines and their little, you know, executive business suit. And then we've got, you know, whole sort of ethical hackers there with, like, crazy rainbow color hair, and folks are interacting and mixing it up with each other that might not have had, you know, other opportunities to be at the same type of an event, because this isn't focused on a specific type of technology or a specific vendor. It really is just focused on bringing people together who want to, you know, connect with other security folks and environment with zero pressure to drink.

Kerry Guard 20:58

I love the food piece because there is there is clearly, like, generally, when you go to these events, there is more effort on the bar than there is on on the food, and that's really counterbalanced because you really shouldn't drink on an empty stomach, right? Oh, I love that, even when I don't do a ton of event planning. But I we always do an annual, an annual summit with the team. And we get together, and we always go out and do something. So we go to last year was really fun. We went, got we went, did mini golf inside. Oh, nice. And so everybody. And then the mini golf area, it was in New York City. They had food trucks. So you got to pick which food truck you wanted to go to, and then you ordered from there. And I always tell the team, I'm like, we will cover your first beer, wine, if you want to go fancy, that's up to you. And then after that, it's on you guys. And so to your point, it allows us to make sure we're taking care of them and getting them food. Yes, more important than that, than alcohol, obviously. So I definitely love that

Jen VanAntwerp 22:03

it's tough at conferences too. Because I think there are some times when I meet folks who have worked in security primarily, are like, Oh my gosh, our industry is so bad when it comes to, like, substance abuse and alcoholism, like, it's not atypical. It's not it's not that it's so much worse than other industries, but I think within our industry, we do have a lot of, you know, people with neuro divergence and folks who, like myself, I'm an extrovert, but I do have pretty bad social anxiety when it comes to like meeting new people or being in new situations. So when you couple that, when you've got some social anxiety issues and you're going to a conference, maybe it's the first conference you've ever been to, or you get uncomfortable around groups of large people, or you're nervous about meeting new folks, or that, you know, horrible imposter syndrome creeping up. We've got all these other issues going on in the background, and then we've had a long day of conference. We are more than likely very dehydrated because sometimes at the conferences it's hard to even find places to refill your water bottle. So you're dehydrated. And then you've got maybe two or three different evening events that you need to like make an appearance at that you've been invited to, if you're just having one or two drinks at each one of those by the end of the night, it can be a really bad situation, because if you start to use alcohol as sort of that social lubricant, it can start to cause you to have even more than you normally would. And people are just usually trying to be polite when they're like bringing you a new drink or saying, hey, what can I get you? What can I get you? And it's free, so it's harder to it's harder to say no. So it's like this, you know, these cascading errors that start to happen, where by the end of a conference or an event, you know, people might have done or said things that they normally wouldn't have, that they might regret or just feel icky, just feel like dried out and hungover and nasty. So having alternative options, whether it's through sober and cyber or, you know, hopefully I this message helps to inspire other marketers and other people to, like, throw different types of events, whole different kinds of activities that don't just revolve around alcohol. And I don't think it's been intentional. I don't think it's anything that we as an industry have done on purpose. It's just what it's just been done and what's worked, yeah. I mean, it worked really well, yeah, in the past, but man, we're so creative, we can find so many cooler things to do.

Kerry Guard 24:39

Yeah, I think as we learn, you know, we talked about the authenticity of the of the cyber crew in terms of all the people who show up, and I think the inclusivity that this creates, you know, the other thing to I think we have to rethink events collectively across. The board, from sober, from allergies, from anxieties, like we mentioned, I think one of the wonderful things that you're doing is thinking about the space as a whole. From an inclusive standpoint, we were talking about places for people to sit and be able to actually hear one another, our wonderful attributes. How do you is it just those things, in terms of people knowing that if they're going to a sober and cyber event, those are things to look forward to, or is there some aspect you mentioned having a vibe and keeping the music sort of soft? But do you have other pools of like, you know, you talked about, I guess I'm talking more about themes you talked about, sort of the Oh, at the mob Club, where you did, yeah, Speak Easy, yeah. Speak Easy before, yeah. So do you always have sort of, like, a theme or a thing or a hook to, like, make people excited and bring them in.

Jen VanAntwerp 26:03

Yeah,for our two, so we have, I say this like we've been doing this forever. We're only on year like, 1.5 right now, but there are two main events that I'm more than likely going to have every single year. Initially, I wanted to start by having a sober and cyber event with some of the larger security conferences starting here, within the US, but I definitely want to, like, make this more global. As we have more volunteers, we'll be able to help cover some stuff right now. Kerry said, Come on, come on, craziness this time of year, come on down like InfoSec. Yeah, that would be fantastic. But RSA and like hacker summer camp, are the two main events that I want to have a big sober and cyber event during. So with RSA, it is the rock and mocktails event. So we have that one actually coming up on April 28 so rock and Mocktails is like punk rock, rock and roll-themed event. We're going to have a temporary tattoo artist who's going to be there this year, who can give you some guilt-free ink wherever you'd like, you know, rock and roll themed arts and crafts, which was really, really fun last year. So I definitely want to do that again this year. And some good music, like, still, you can hear each other, but it's, you know, it's rock music. And then at the silver speakeasy, that one, the mob Museum does a fantastic job of, they've got some, like, chill vibe music that, you know, feels like you're in an underground speakeasy back in the day, it's like 20s, 30s, instrumental stuff, but we had some good little costume pieces. The little like, I think they're Fedora hats and the little like, feather, feather headbands, like, and people, some people dress up in flopper costumes, and it's just it was a ton of fun. We had a really cool photo booth there this last year, but the venue itself is phenomenal. At the mob Museum, during our event, people are able to go and tour the museum for free. So they come in through the underground speakeasy. They have to know, like a secret word. But if you don't actually know what, they'll, as long as you have your ticket, they'll, they'll let you in, but they have you go through the whole like, Oh, what's that like? Open a little door and ask you for the secret word. It's just a whole the experience helps to make the event. It helps to make the party more memorable and something that people want to come back to the next year. So I'm a big I'm a big theme fan. I love costuming. I love, oh my god yes. I love, like, themed, themed mocktails, themed, you know, just everything. Yeah, okay,

Kerry Guard 28:38

let's talk about the mocktails. Because I saw some pictures from when your events not too long ago, and you had some ones that looked glorious. So what are some of your favorite go-to mocktails for these things?

Jen VanAntwerp 28:52

Oh my gosh, I try to work with a bartender. So I myself am not a mixologist, so I need to learn more about, like, mixology, especially doing this, I think it would be helpful for me. But I know what tastes good. I know what I like. And as a silver person, there are a lot of times when, in the past, we've kind of been relegated to like, oh yeah, we have non alcoholic beverages, soda, and that's about it. So I want to have some things that still feel elevated, that aren't just syrupy, sugary sweet and that, you know, I love, like the little garnishes and things that just make it feel extra. I'm a little extra myself, and so I like to have things that feel like additional effort has been taken to put them together. So that's usually what I'm looking for. When I look at a mocktail menu from, you know, from a venue or somebody that I'm going to be working with, is like, what? What's that thing that's going to make people feel extra special? Like, oh, look at this fancy, you know, swizzle stick with, you know, sugar crystals on it. I don't know, all those things. Things that make it feel a little extra fancy. Oh, a little piece of the plant. Oh, my goodness, little things like that, a bird, part of an orange peel. It's the little things that I hope to like, Yeah, little things that help to kind of push it over past Shirley Temple into something that feels a little more grown up,

Kerry Guard 30:20

Fair enough. Fair enough. I do love a good Shirley Temple. I've been ordering, yes,

Jen VanAntwerp 30:23

they are, they are. Forever. I still order them.

Kerry Guard 30:25

And then kind

Jen VanAntwerp 30:27

of a mix of, I love when, when bartenders can do a mix of some things that are on the fruitier side and then others that are a little more savory, so that, that way it's not just like sugary, fruity, sweet for each drink a variety, a whole variety of flavors.

Kerry Guard 30:46

Yeah,that's nice, because I do find that without because the alcohol eats the sugar, right? So if you don't have that in it, then things do come across. I asked a friend the other day after tennis, we always go to the cafe and have drinks. And I've been since January, I haven't been drinking. And so I was like, what's the in the UK, the big thing here is cider, right? Yeah, and they now have nonalcoholic cider. And I was like, What is it? Does it actually taste like cider? And he's like, unfortunately, it's basically just glorified fruit juice, yeah. Okay, I will not do that now. Go for the ferment tea instead. But yeah, so I was really curious, if that's you know, how you sort of overcome that in this scenario of it. And it sounds like the garnishes, the going more savory than sweet, all those things. So we'll have to get some of your favorite recipes from some of the events you've held and share those with folks because I think we're all I would love to be able to go to like, a bar and say, Can I have this but without that? And, you know, have something a little bit fancier, you know, when you're holding that drink, to elude people, but, like, it still looks like a thing, because

Jen VanAntwerp 31:56

My typical go to for that, it's really simple. I'll just have them put, like, sparkling water in a glass with a splash of cranberry juice and a lime wedge, like a lemon or a lime wedge. And I call it a Susie Q, and that's because my Aunt Sue, I think she tried to name something after herself. That's what she always drinks when she goes out. And so I tried to order them before and, like, I don't know what that is. I think she named that herself, which is because now my uncle, you know all the places they go, no, oh yeah, I'll get you a Susie Q, but I think it's because they've been going there for a long time. But, yeah, just sparkling water, a splash of cranberry juice and then a lime. It's really light and refreshing. And it does kind of look, usually they put it in like a little low ball glass, so it does look kind of like what everyone's drinking. And honestly, bartenders are usually my MVP, like, if I'm going to a place where I don't feel really comfortable talking about my sobriety, I will tell the bartender, like, Hey, I'm I'm not drinking. I'm sober. If anyone does happen to order me anything that has alcohol in it, don't, don't do that. And they're always so great about, like, getting my drink ready even before I'm halfway done with the one that I have, so that we can just kind of swap. That's so nice. And honestly, a lot of bartenders are sober themselves, because I think they've seen the other side of things for so long that they get it for.

Kerry Guard 33:20

What other in terms of event planning in general, I love that you found this empty space. What sort of advice would you give to folks as they think about event planning and finding opportunity that's maybe non traditional and in that, you know, empty space? I think what you did, if I had to summarize, which I think is so lovely is you were like, well, what, where would I want to go? What would this look like for me? So I think that's one great way to do it. But do you have any other tips and tricks of like, what if you could, like, paint us a picture of you know, what events would look like for the future as we move into this realm?

Jen VanAntwerp 34:02

What would you love to see more event planners do talk to the people who you want to come to your events, ask them what interests them there. We just had a fantastic call with the the cybersecurity marketing society yesterday, the we have a field marketing monthly meetup, and we were talking about just this, like alternative ideas for different events, instead of maybe just having the standard booth, what other types of activities would you want to do? And like I was saying, this industry, the people in this space, are so creative, if we just start thinking about that earlier on and asking our prospects and our customers, like, what interests you, what would be fun for you? A lot of folks, too, are starting to do more things that can involve people's families. If it's a regional event or one where you know people are going to be coming from home, what's something that people can bring, you know, their kids to, or their significant other to, that might help to, you know, eke out that different I'll. Alternative type of a space where people really remember you, because not only did you treat me nicely, I think a lot of the executives are so used to getting like wined and dined, not only did you try to treat me nicely, but, you know, you helped me find a really good like a cooking event or something that I could do with a date or with a spouse, or, you know, take my kids to a painting event or something really, really fun that's outside of the box. So just start your planning earlier than you normally would, so that you're not stuck with like, Oh, what do we do? I guess what we've always done. Start the planning earlier and be intentional. Talk to the people that you want to be at the event. Ask them what would interest and intrigue them and leave a lasting impression. And then start talking about those things. Once you decide all the cool stuff that you're going to do if, if you're going to have some alternative types of activities or beverage options, make sure you talk about that. Celebrate it, let people know, because that way folks who are maybe attending that conference instead of going back to their hotel room, because they think, oh, there's not really anything out there. For me, it's going to be the same, the same thing as always. They'll know like, no this, this event is going to be cool. This one I know, at least I'll be able to feel welcome, or find a place where I can kind of belong.

Kerry Guard 36:19

Talk to your audience. It's been a theme, folks, yes, I hope we're finally like breaking through here. Talk to your audience. What do they want? What's important to them? Everything we do as marketers is is for them. So what is that? And I just I'm so grateful. Thank you so much, Jen for sharing with us how you created sober and cyber, how you've differentiated it to make it interesting and welcoming, and all the wonderful tips you've given to us in terms of how we, too can make a more inclusive environment. If you'd like to learn more about Jen and sober and cyber, please reach out to Jen when where's the best place to find you?

Jen VanAntwerp 37:07

To reach me directly, just go to LinkedIn and then our sober and cyber website, at sober in cyber.org, and you can see the upcoming events that we have on the calendar, any sponsorship opportunities if you are an alcohol-free person within this industry. We've got a discord group now, while our in person events are open to everyone, the discord server, I do try to reserve just for sober, alcohol free people within our industry. That way we can anonymously like, share ideas, resources. You know, have the buddy program or like, Hey, are you going to this conference? I'm going to this conference. I've got your back. Yeah. So reach out to me on LinkedIn, find us on online, and I hopefully get to see you at a party one of these days.

Kerry Guard 37:47

Yes, next year, Jen, where it's going to be? Yes is on Austin. Austin. Here we come. Yes, yes. We come. Wonderful. Well, before we close out, you are more than a marketer. Clearly, with all of the wonderful event planning you're doing with your with your nonprofit, but outside of work and your nonprofit, what is currently bringing you joy?

Jen VanAntwerp 38:12

I love cars. Part of that came from working in automotive industry for a long time, but my dad has had classic cars for a long, long time, ever since I can remember. And in 2020 I bought a 1965 Ford Ranchero. And so I've been working on that and going to car shows with my dad. So it's, you know, multiple times each month, we'll get together, either in the ranchero, if it's working at that moment, or we'll just go to car show together with also with my husband and my husband's dad. So you know, hanging out at car shows, talking about cars, and trying to fix cars that are more expensive than they have any right to be. I always say, like, I work for parts money. I'm just trying to make some parts money that's on date, and bringing you so much joy just getting to hang out there and be in that environment. It's been phenomenal.

Kerry Guard 39:09

I love learning how things work. So I can imagine with not only, like loving cars and the look of them, actually understanding their parts and how it all this is just the

Jen VanAntwerp 39:19

learning process, that's for sure, but I understand it's very complicated.

Kerry Guard 39:23

So yes, oh, wonderful, wonderful. Well, thank you so much, Jen. I'm so grateful to you. If you like this episode, please like, subscribe, and share. This episode is brought to you by MKG Marketing, the digital market agency that helps complex companies like in cyber get found via SEO and digital ads. This episode is hosted by Kerry Guard, CEO and co-founder of MKG Marketing, Music Mix, and mastering is done by the amazing Elijah Drown, my podcast sidekick. And if you'd like to be a guest, I'd love to have you DM me to be on the show. Thank you all so much.