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Marketing Tactics with Kindsey Haynes–Nurturing Leads and Targeting Pain Points

Kerry Guard • Friday, December 1, 2023 • 50 minutes to listen

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Kindsey Haynes

Kindsey Haynes is a native of Fort Smith, Arkansas who made the bold decision to relocate to Honolulu about two and a half years ago. She initially moved to Hawaii after her company transitioned to remote work due to the COVID-19 pandemic, allowing her the flexibility to work from anywhere. With her boss's approval, Kindsey seized the opportunity to fulfill her dream of living in Hawaii and has been making the most of her new island home ever since.


Welcome to another episode of Tea Time with Tech Marketers.

In this episode, host Kerry Guard sits down with Kindsey Haynes, the CMO of Kirkham Iron Tech, to delve into their innovative marketing strategies and tactics. 

Kindsey shares insights into how her team effectively targets specific industry verticals, focuses on nurturing relationships with potential clients, and utilizes a mix of traditional and digital marketing approaches, such as webinars, email marketing, and direct mail. 

Join us as we explore Kindsey's journey from the world of retail to becoming CMO, her adaptation to virtual presentations during the pandemic, and her dream of living in Hawaii. Get ready for a fascinating conversation about marketing, island living, and the dynamic strategies employed by Kirkham Iron Tech to reach their audience. 

So grab your favorite tea, settle in, and let's dive into the world of tech marketing with Kindsey Haynes!


Kerry Guard [00:00:15]:

Hello. I'm Kerry Guard. Welcome to Tea Time with Tech Marketing Leaders. Welcome back to the show. So grateful y'all are here. We are live on both LinkedIn and YouTube. So if you find any issues on 1 or the other, feel free to pop on over and find us again. We'd love to have you.

Kerry Guard [00:00:32]:

The beauty of being alive is that we get to hang out with you all. So please, please, please come comment. I can't see you unless I see you. So I'm paying attention to the comments. Kinsey and I are excited about your questions. We are on it and we are pumped, so please come hang out with us. Let's do this. Kinsey, I'm so grateful you're here.

Kerry Guard [00:00:55]:

Welcome to the show.

Kindsey Haynes [00:00:56]:

Thanks for having me.

Kerry Guard [00:00:57]:

Kinsey is, she is the CMO currently the CMO of Kirkham Iron Tech. She has worked in the IT and cybersecurity industry for the last years providing services to businesses nationwide. When she's not working on her next marketing campaign or project, you can find her at the beach doing a hike Watching her favorite show on Netflix, currently Shameless. Although that we're gonna get an update on that. It's gonna be great. Or eat way too much sushi because Girl is in Hawaii now, which we're gonna get the story she's gonna spill all the tea for us folks. This is gonna be wild. I'm excited.

Kerry Guard [00:01:34]:

Kinsey, I did not do that intro justice. That was, like, the cliff notes of the cliff notes. So bring it along for us. What's your story? Where are you now, and how did you get there? Especially in Hawaii. I want that one.

Kindsey Haynes [00:01:50]:

Yeah. So I moved out here to Honolulu, I guess, about two and a half years ago now. I was originally born and raised in Fort Smith, Arkansas. That's where our home office is located. Of course, with COVID, you know, everyone just started working from home that March of 2020, And, I was one of them, and I just didn't really see the point in staying in, Arkansas once COVID kinda calmed down. I hadn't gone back to the office, and my boss was cool as me, you know, staying remote because it worked. We made it work. And, I just pretty much asked, you know, can I go to Hawaii? And here I am now.

Kerry Guard [00:02:25]:

Why Hawaii? Did you just, like, decide why not, or was there a reason that pulled you there? Hi. So I thought.

Kindsey Haynes [00:02:34]:

I grew up coming out here quite often. My dad did some property management, so we would just come out here on a whim. And I fell in love with Island at, like, 6 years old, and, it was always a dream of mine to get out here. I just didn't know when it was gonna be or how easy it was gonna be to get here. So I'm pretty proud of myself and happy that I made it at the age that I did.

Kerry Guard [00:02:55]:

That's amazing. I've only been to Hawaii once And I met my husband while I was there, so I decided it's probably best  I don't go again. You know? We'll get out there. We'll get back out there, Kinsey. It'll be amazing. We'll all sync up. Why don't you tell us your B to B Iron Tech story? So you're CMO now, but whether marketing found you or we found marketing is an adventure for us all. So what's your story in that? Did you fall into it? Did you sign up for it? And then what was that journey along the way?

Kindsey Haynes [00:03:28]:

In high school, you know, my 1st job, I was working in retail, and I kinda fell in love with sales. It was a company called Marissa's. I think they're still around. It's women's, fashion clothing. And I like how or I liked how they went about their sales process, and, you know, they would want you to help the prospect or, you know, the shopper have at least 5 items. So that would be, like, jeans and a shirt and then bracelets and, like, add-ons, you know, trying to upsell. And I was, like, this is kind of fun. And so coming time for me to, like, pick a degree for college, I was, like, why not try out marketing? You know, social media is a big right now, it's on the rise.

Kindsey Haynes [00:04:10]:

I enjoy social media. So I was like, why not? Let's just let's just go for it and see how I like it. And I fell in love with the marketing classes. I had a blast. I went to a great school in Fort Smith. And my last semester of college, I was looking for an internship in marketing so I could get my foot in the door, and learn real world marketing, not just what they're teaching in the classrooms. The university has this cool program where local businesses can reach out to the university in search of interns in a certain degree field. And so Kirkham Iron Talk was looking for someone in marketing.

Kindsey Haynes [00:04:45]:

I got the email, and I was like, I don't know much about Tiger cybersecurity, but Why not? You know, let's go in for the interview. And, the interview went well, and I ended up getting the internship. And, yeah, here I am now. It'll be 4 years in January. I'm the CMO, and I've just grown with the company. It's been an absolute journey, to say the least.

Kerry Guard [00:05:09]:

Oh my gosh. I wanna sit here for a second because it's a very unusual story for your 1st job to actually land you not land you because I don't know where you started, but, like, now you're a CMO after 4 years. So Let's talk about roles and responsibilities for a second. What were your roles and responsibilities when you first got the job?

Kindsey Haynes [00:05:27]:

Yeah. So when I first got the job, we didn't really have we had 1 person doing sales, but we had 2 divisions when I first started. So we had an IT division and a cybersecurity division. They're now 1. At that point in time, my main focus was the cybersecurity division, and to get new clients for the cybersecurity division, I had tech security. And, I mean, I had learned, you know, stuff in college about, you know, trying to bring in leads, but sitting down and actually trying to sell cybersecurity and tech not knowing much about it, like, it took some learning, and my boss, was doing in person presentations right before COVID hit. And I started in January of 2020. COVID hit just 3 months later.

Kindsey Haynes [00:06:11]:

So that was their main form of getting new clients in the door at that time, so we immediately went virtual and started doing webinars. So those same presentations that he was doing, we started doing them virtually. And that's kinda of how or what I started really with, I guess. And then I kinda dipped my feet into the email marketing aspect of things and hosting our own webinars, and I kinda just grew and started trying new things. What wasn't working, I stopped doing it and tried something else. And yeah. Here I am now.

Kerry Guard [00:06:44]:

Oh my gosh. So where are so let's talk about where you are now. So as CMO, are you like, it sounds like you were pretty hands on at the beginning, like you learned email marketing on the fly. Now what are your responsibilities in the company as in this role?

Kindsey Haynes [00:07:01]:

I'm still doing email marketing. I love it.  Yeah. It's super fun. Right now, I've got a sales guy who handles all of our sales, including the president. So I guess you could say about 2. And then I have an intern, and we've hired a client experience manager. So I am kind of bringing all of them together and putting all of those pieces together the puzzle pieces together because sales and marketing go hand in hand.

Kindsey Haynes [00:07:25]:

So me and Davin, that's his name, we're a team. We're a great team, And we're constantly, you know, working on our messaging and making sure that everything is where it needs to be to hit the pain points of our prospects. I'm also now kind of the one that's like, okay. What are we gonna do next? What are we gonna try next? Like, what's something new that's out there and upcoming that we can use to help better our business and grow as a business and get our name out there and market ourselves better?

Kerry Guard [00:07:54]:

I love the evolution. I think that's like the perfect arc of, like, where you need to go. Right? Get in there, get your hands dirty, figure it out, and then how do you build that team along the way, big or small, and figure out you know, get to that place where you can stop fighting the fires, but actually, like, focus on the future where you wanna go now. So I love that. What's one challenge you're currently facing? We're all human. Life is hard. So what is it for you that's that's tough right now?

Kindsey Haynes [00:08:23]:

We were doing a lot of webinars the last couple of years throughout COVID and all of that. And we were getting lots of leads, good leads, But they weren't necessarily the size of leads that we were wanting. So my main focus the last few months has really been trying to get those bigger clients in the door, that bigger cell in the door, which, of course, they're harder to sell to in some aspects. It's a longer sales process too. You gotta talk to different people. There are more people involved in that process, and you gotta educate all of them too at the same time. So, yeah, my goal right now is just to get those bigger guys in the door so my sales guy can go in and do what he needs to do. And so I'm having to kinda change my marketing tactics to market to those bigger guys because the smaller guys were hanging out where I was.  So I'm trying to hang out with the bigger guys now.

Kerry Guard [00:09:14]:

The big guns. You stepping up. Yep. Yeah.  No. I think that's a challenge a lot  of companies are facing, especially when you sort of, you know, I'm working with a startup, and one of the things they said is, like, there comes a point where you gotta put your big  adult pants on and actually, like, step up to the plate and, that sounds like that's where you are and it's exciting, and And so, yes to that. So let's talk about you and let you know, that you've been leading into webinars and email marketing for a long time.

Kerry Guard [00:09:48]:

It sounds like that's shifting for you, or are you still maintaining that while adding on?

Kindsey Haynes [00:09:55]:

We're still maintaining it while adding on. We're switching some of the messaging and the webinars to kinda gear it towards those bigger guys. The smaller ones won't even attend. It's not a mandatory event that they go to. It's something that they choose to go to. So kind of marketing it towards the correct prospects. I think that was something that just took me a second to kinda figure that out. The email marketing, we have had we have a lot of success with it.

Kindsey Haynes [00:10:23]:

We get quite a few meetings doing the email marketing. I've learned to keep it just as short and simple as possible. People like it when you're straight to the point and not wasting anyone's time. I send out 1 email a week, whether it be educational or just checking in to say, hey, I'm here if you need us, addressing those pain points that these guys have. And we get we get made into doing that. I think The last time we spoke, I had mentioned direct mail and how we had just started kind of picking that backup. That was something the company was doing way before I even started. And I wanna say it was June, I think, that we picked it back up where we've been sending out either 1 or 2 pieces a month to a list of about 250.

Kindsey Haynes [00:11:06]:

And, my sales guy, Davin, has been going in and reaching out, following up with these guys, making sure they got us letters, postcards. We sent out a cool little postcard for Halloween, that was about just cybersecurity and how it's always spooky season. You know, in the cyber world, there's always stuff to be scared of. And it was just kinda making it a more playful kind of pitch rather than something else. And it's I mean, we're not really pitching too hard. It just says, hey. Like, give us a call if you're in need of these services. We're your go to person.

Kindsey Haynes [00:11:39]:

And we've gotten some meetings from that as well.

Kerry Guard [00:11:41]:

Okay. Let's take a huge step back. I wanna dig into both of these things because I feel like people are struggling with those sorts of, like, getting caught by the the shiny objects. Right? The AI, the TikTok of the world and, like, trying to get out in front and do, like, the cool new thing. And you're not, which I find fascinating, but also, like, A great reminder to us all. It's like there's beauty in the basics, and let's, like, define, rewind, and that's great. Before we get there, you mentioned you basically have a list. You have a list of 250 folks that you mail to, which I need to unpack for the exciting to understand how on earth we're doing that, especially in a remote world now.

Kerry Guard [00:12:23]:

And Then you also have your email list that you're emailing, you know, once or twice a week. But how did you build those lists?

Kindsey Haynes [00:12:32]:

Yeah. So it's been a long process of building the list. We have used something called seamless AI in the past, so that helps You can put in a name and it'll give you their physical address so you can direct mail and market to them. And then, of course, the last 4 years, I've done lots of lead magnets, Those calls to action where it's just a simple form, you know, sign up, get on our list, get informed. We have a really big list that's just like, it's not even our marketing list. It's called cybersecurity threats and warnings. So we have that even aside from our marketing list where, if there's a big, I don't know, say, a breach in Google Chrome or LastPass, we can send out an alert to everybody and let them know, hey, something's up. You know, change your password Or, you know, do the update, whatever it might be.

Kindsey Haynes [00:13:20]:

Also, we working with the associations and the different groups that we've worked with, they will give us the attendee list, and we're able to go and market to them, like, after the fact. And that's an easy way just to follow up. Hey. We saw you came to our webinar. You know, do you have any questions? Are you in need? How can we help you? Are you happy with your current support?

Kerry Guard [00:13:43]:

Okay. So stand no. I will standard not stand standard in a good way, standard of, like, the tried and true lead generation opportunities. I love what you're saying about, like, this wonderful value of just getting updated. I think there's definitely, you know, an Opportunity there for people to find those niches, like, what your audience truly cares about and how to keep them informed. I wanted to touch on something you said about finding people's home addresses. Is it the home address?

Kindsey Haynes [00:14:15]:

No. It'll be the business address.

Kerry Guard [00:14:17]:

Okay. That makes you feel a little better. That's Yeah. Curious, like cybersecurity, and yet we can access people's data. That sounds, a conflict of interest. Okay. So you know the con so because you have the contact and you have basically their, work email their work email address, you can look up the company, which then looks up. Okay.

Kerry Guard [00:14:40]:

Yep. With the remote world now, you are still finding that people are getting your direct mhmm. Mail postcards even though so does do are are they going they're going to the offices, obviously. I don't know how companies do it. I guess there's a whole bunch of ways to do it now, know whether it gets scanned and then a picture gets sent or, like, gets forwarded on. I guess people have figured it out.

Kindsey Haynes [00:15:06]:

Yeah. I mean, they'd have to. People still send mail. I mean, it's even here at my apartment. I got a  reason I go to the dentist I go because they sent me a postcard in the mail, And it caught my attention.

Kerry Guard [00:15:19]:

So talk to me about the direct mail piece because I I have not heard people doing this before. And I think when we went remote, it was kind of like off the table like direct mail's dead. Join the club. And Yeah. We're not gonna start asking people for personal you know, that's always the tricky part. My business partner, brilliant human, found a way around this where he'll know where, he won't know their address, but he'll know what city they're in, and so he'll call a florist in their city and say, This is our contact. Here's their phone number. If you could give them a call and figure out where they live and then you can go deliver I always thought that was like a great way, like to figure out how to, you know, deliver a personal message.

Kerry Guard [00:16:10]:

So has it just been postcards? Have you done anything, you know, customer success wise? What has Direct Mail done for you?

Kindsey Haynes [00:16:18]:

We also send out long form letters. So, I mean, not super long, but a 2-page letter. And I'm sure you've heard of Ogilvy and the copywriting styles and, you know, having certain fonts catches the eye more than another font for a heading. And so we really focus on making sure the letter is not only eye catching but appealing and something they'd wanna read. Because, I mean, if you get a letter in the mail, it's like you don't have very long when your eyes look over it. Is this some is trash, or is this something worth reading? And we've really crafted each message inside of it to something that we see as a pain point in a lot of the prospects we're talking to are our current clients. And, like, the last one that we just wrote, it was kind of, what was the title of it? Like, how does your current IT support, staff, or firms stock up? And then we added a quiz as a separate page to where they can actually, like, do a little self assessment If they believe that their IT support maybe isn't where it should be, and it's like if you don't answer yes to every box, you know, you could be accepting the substandard support and lacking in your IT and cybersecurity needs.

Kindsey Haynes [00:17:31]:

And of course, we offer an assessment in the letter too. So if they are interested in meeting with us, we do give that out for free. Those cost 100 of dollars, but it's something that we do to get our foot in the door. Another reason we stopped with the smaller guys is because it's just not worth the time to, like, sit down and do an assessment like that. And right. We kinda figured that out, and we've just adjusted as we've gone.

Kerry Guard [00:17:55]:

Sounds like a switcher campaign because it sounds like you're saying when to assess your current IT, whether it's internal or external, it's kind of like mhmm. Well, instead of them, you wanna use us, and here's why.

Kindsey Haynes [00:18:09]:

Mhmm. Yeah. We've also had quite a few, people reach out locally who haven't been happy with their local IT, and, you know, they just know us from even just driving down the street. And so I've kind of taken that knowledge that I've been hearing around that some people just aren't happy with their current support. And Gonna use that against or not against, but in my favor, and have them assess their current setup. And then also, it's good if they don't wanna move forward with us. It's a good, guidance to kind of run by, you know, or if they're not using password managers, well, that may be something that their IT guy could look into, and they can start that conversation. So it's just a good resource too.

Kerry Guard [00:18:52]:

Companies still aren't using passwords, or password management tools.

Kindsey Haynes [00:18:57]:

Tell me about it. Tone. We have a battle. Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:19:01]:

Oh my gosh. It's like the lowest of the lowest hanging fruit right there. Get on that folks. If you're listening right now and you're not using a password manager.

Kindsey Haynes [00:19:09]:

Yeah. Yeah. Important stuff.

Kerry Guard [00:19:12]:

Rock on. In terms of, When you say local, are you talking about, like so I'm on an island as well, and I do find oh, open good to know. Thank you, Peter. I do find that there's something about this island in particular that has its localness to it. Right. Like, I saw this amazing ad, devastating but so true, and it was for drinking and driving. And they're, like, It was this whole concept, and I can't remember the exact words, but it was, like, if you were to drink and drive and you were to get in an accident, chances are the person you're in an accident with, you're gonna know or somebody yeah. Like , it's a small community, so, like, pay attention to what you're doing.

Kerry Guard [00:20:06]:

Right. And I just don't think you can really get that anywhere else, especially in the US with how big it is. And so when you're saying local, is it that kind of Local, like, in a small community, or is it like I'd say so.

Kindsey Haynes [00:20:18]:

Fort Smith is where our home office is in Arkansas. And it's I mean, a big city for Arkansas, but it's really not that big. And my boss, he used to have a radio show back in the day, and so a lot of people know him from now. We have good just brand recognition. People know us around town, and our office is located on a very busy street that I mean, if you're just driving through town I mean, everyone's driven past it. It's it's right there. We've got our logo on the front.

Kindsey Haynes [00:20:48]:

We've got a Tesla with the company logo, So just that driving around kinda catches people's attention in a small town in Arkansas.

Kerry Guard [00:20:57]:

Yes. I mean, the small town living, like going to people you trust, I think makes such a huge difference. I know we're global and things are decentralized now and remote working is real whether we wanna believe it or not, But there is still there is still beauty in, like, knowing.

Kindsey Haynes [00:21:14]:


Kerry Guard [00:21:14]:

That somebody understands Especially when it's a bit  of a niche little area that you're in and has its little quirks.

Kindsey Haynes [00:21:22]:

Yeah. Most definitely.

Kerry Guard [00:21:26]:

So are you doing a lot of local marketing than in your area? Or are you pretty much trying to be national, or global? 

Kindsey Haynes [00:21:34]:

We're national. We focus on national, and we're branching out to Canada and Mexico. Locally, I don't do anything specific. I mean, all of my marketing, you can say, is done nationally. The direct mail pieces are more local. Like, there's more Arkansas, and Oklahoma. Like, not even local, but, like, semi-local, you know, by the states, Missouri, Texas, Louisiana, just like the whole crew over there. It's kind of a mix.

Kindsey Haynes [00:22:02]:

You get phone calls all the time. People go to our website, and it's just because they know who we are. And I know all of our clients, they're they're happy with their support, and they're telling their friends about us. We get referrals, and it's a small town. People talk, or it gets around.

Kerry Guard [00:22:17]:

Yes, it does. I grew up in a small town, I got around, and then and if you went to the grocery store, you were gonna run into somebody you knew Yeah. Probably, and then I moved to this island, and it is this same idea, which is a blessing. Yeah. And a and a curse if you're in a rush. Right.

Kindsey Haynes [00:22:36]:

Yeah. I would kinda feel Hawaii too. I didn't expect it to be like this, but, mean, you go anywhere, there's a chance you might see someone.

Kerry Guard [00:22:44]:

Good a good chance. High love. I gotta say island living has been such a joy. It's nice to run into somebody who, like it's totally different island living. Yeah. But the island  a small community, nonetheless, I don't know how it is in Hawaii, but one interesting let's just share this for a second because I think this is helpful in people, like, getting back to basics a little bit. So one thing about Guernsey in their local marketing efforts I have found is, like, truck and car rack, like, the amount of advertising that's on trucks is fascinating. If I wanna figure out who my next is gonna be? I don't go on the internet or look at Facebook or Google.

Kerry Guard [00:23:30]:

I just look around me as I'm driving and take pictures of gardner like, Yeah. There's a lot of billboards that we can saw.

Kindsey Haynes [00:23:39]:

I think like billboards. Out here in Hawaii, I don't know if they're, like, illegal, but there aren't any billboards because I guess it takes from the natural beauty. So there are no billboards here. It's not allowed. No signage. We get to see the previews.

Kerry Guard [00:23:56]:

That's fair though. I mean, that's but that's the point of that's the point I'm trying to make is this idea of within your so what marketing have you seen any interesting marketing in Hawaii. That's been a little bit more local.

Kindsey Haynes [00:24:07]:

I mean, just walking down the street, we have benches and stuff on benches, but it's not any it's even I feel like I saw more of that in Arkansas than I do here. I know I mean, we still have newspapers and TV, and I see a lot of ads on my phone. Lots of ads, like, just on Instagram for the newer, like, upcoming trying to bring in the younger crowds. Lots of ads and just word-of-mouth. Yelp is a big thing out here. People love Yelp. Yeah. I had never really used it until I moved here.

Kindsey Haynes [00:24:40]:

And, I mean, that's how I found, like, my pest control people and a cleaner. Like, it's good because so many people leave reviews. And, Yeah. It's, it's different out here. That's, I'm gonna have to like, think about that a little more as I kinda walk around.

Kerry Guard [00:24:55]:

I totally pointed it out. So it's totally gonna be a thing you see. But I think that's really what I love about this conversation that we totally stumbled into, this was not planned, folks, it, is getting back to like, we are a remote world now, but it is important as we talk more about understanding your audience that even gets down to, like, where they live and what they're doing. And if it's radio in Arkansas, right, like, people are still listening to the radio. Like, that's a huge opportunity right there. Right? Yep. Yep. Know your audience and know where they live and know, like, how marketing in those communities works.

Kerry Guard [00:25:29]:

Yelp, Marketing in Hawaii, check out Yelp. I don't like Yelp. I think what they do is kind of gnarly in terms of their best practices, says, but hey, if that's where people are here it's Facebook. It's so weird. They don't have websites for their, for their companies, they have a Facebook page.

Kindsey Haynes [00:25:48]:

Yeah. I've seen that out here too. I'm not a fan. I like a good website.

Kerry Guard [00:25:55]:

At least we knew how to find the key to the company, so it took me forever to figure that out. Like, I was like, why can't I find the thing I'm looking for? Then I go to Facebook and search their name, and it's like, they're right there. Yeah. Wild. Ah, okay. Thank you for that detour. Let's, let's circle back to, email marketing. We talked about local a little bit.

Kerry Guard [00:26:14]:

We've talked about direct mail, which was really a hot topic for me because I think that's fascinating that you're able to do that. Let's talk about email. So it sounds like you're doing a lot of nurturing versus cold or both? What sort of

Kindsey Haynes [00:26:27]:

We're more nurturing than anything. We also have, like, journeys set up. I know Every email, or software calls it something different. I used to use ActiveCampaign, and it was called automation, where you can set up kind of a trigger flow where if Someone opens this, this happens, or someone clicks this link, this happens. And it's something me and Davin, I saw as executive, we've been a lot on lately. We just switched CRMs, like, 6 months ago, which was a big adjustment, learning a new platform. Yeah.

Kindsey Haynes [00:27:01]:

I was pretty nervous, but it's It's been good. It was a good transition. I have nothing bad to say about ActiveCampaign. I loved it. We switched to CRM that's specific to our industry, and they work with IT and cybersecurity providers. So it kinda just fits with us a little bit better. But we've been focusing on you know, So we don't just reach out cold. If they have clicked on, you know, say, 3 or 4 emails, the past emails I've sent out, they clicked the link, it automatically set a task for my sales executive to go in and just give him a call, give him a ring, say, hey.

Kindsey Haynes [00:27:38]:

Like, I saw you opened my email. I've had people that to me and, you know, it catches my attention. Like, okay. Wait. What email? Remind me, and you can kinda get that conversation going. And we also have Journey set up, for example, if they don't answer the phone. So Davin can just go and click the button, and it sends out an email to him saying, hey. Like, I just tried giving you a call, and I missed you.

Kindsey Haynes [00:28:00]:

Give me a callback when you can and that's it. Like, he doesn't have to type up the email. He doesn't have to send it, and then it sets a follow-up task if need be depending on the situation. It's kinda making everyone's life easier. My goal is to I want Davin to be able to focus on these good prospects. And if his funnel is full of just people that are opening our emails, they haven't raised their hand at all. They haven't downloaded anything. They've not attended the webinar.

Kindsey Haynes [00:28:27]:

It's a waste of time. And that's straight cold calling. Some people may say it's not a waste of time, but We've found that if they're a warmer lead, we're gonna have better luck turning them into a client and converting them.

Kerry Guard [00:28:41]:

I think this is so important because so many times, people tend to think that the men they get a lead, should be sent to Sales. Yep. And I think you're making that and saying, no, please Yeah. Don't do that. So what kind of emails do you send on more of the nurture side? You said they're all automation, so this, you know, sort of this happens and that happens. Is it, Are you and you're talking about Journey, so it sounds like it's not newsletter based.

Kindsey Haynes [00:29:13]:

We do have a newsletter that's once a month, and we send it out at the end of the month. I've gotten good feedback on it. People enjoy it. I fill it up with we've we put 5 blog posts on our website a month, which is Good for SEO. So That's great. I throw Yeah. I throw that onto our digest with, like, I think there's 8 total. So then there's some other big news.

Kindsey Haynes [00:29:33]:

I  mean, like, when MGM was hacked, that was sound like the top headline. Big deal. You know, people won't right? People wanna know about that, and, of course, I put it all in layman's terms where you don't have to be a techie to read this article. You know, it's gonna be an easy read, something you can thoroughly enjoy and learn. And, of course, I throw our content in the mix. So there I'm still leading people to our website when I'm sending them this digest. Sometimes I'll throw one of our YouTube videos in there.

Kindsey Haynes [00:30:00]:

We do YouTube videos, kind of podcast style with my CEO and sales guy, Just adjusting pain points, like, depending on the vertical. We're really focusing hard on manufacturers right now. So last week, I had them make 2 little videos, ten minute videos for YouTube that I can repurpose and put on the manufacturing page on the website and post on social media, and then also let YouTube do its thing and hope that it, you know, gains some traction that way. Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:30:29]:

Let's sit there for a second because I find people get sort of caught up in the doing of the thing. Right? So when we're talking about content and building content and you're just you're a very small team, so the fact that you get to lean into your CEO. Thank goodness your CEO was a radio star. That certainly helps. Awesome. Yeah. So you have your so you have sales and your CEO who are able to it sounds like they have a great relationship and are able to banter. Is there a system process where you just shoot an email to them and say, do this thing, and they go off and do it, or is There structure?

Kerry Guard [00:31:06]:

Is there like, help people get over the hump of just,doing the damn thing.

Kindsey Haynes [00:31:12]:

Yeah,right. Well, I request once a month, whenever they can fit it into their schedules, that they just sit on Zoom and record some content for me, and I don't want any more than 30 minutes of their time. I'm not asking for it, but I do give direction on what to talk about because, You know, they could get sidetracked, and the conversation could go who's who knows where. So, like, when I had said a 2nd ago last week, I had them do a video on manufacturing. I've been working on our new website, making vertical pages for the industries we specialize in. And I have so much content for, like, lawyers and accountants and all this. And I'm like, okay. Like, I have to we've got to get something for the manufacturers.

Kindsey Haynes [00:31:54]:

And, then, like, new NIST there's a new NIST 2-point  framework. You may or may not know what that is, but that's coming out. And so, like, I told them, you know, next week, if that's something that they wanna make a short video about, Go for it. I mean, it's something that, we need content on. One of our highest ranking videos on YouTube is about NIST, so I know people are looking it up. Let's kind of I I can kinda tell where people are watching, and, I will gear my content more towards that, but I also wanna make sure it's something that my prospect would be asking or typing into YouTube. You know, like, what, I guess, we could do for accountants, like, how to secure my accounting firm or how to secure a CPA,  or the best cybersecurity tools for CPAs, something that they would actually type in Google, kind of when you're writing a blog post, it's the exact same thought process. Mhmm.

Kerry Guard [00:32:53]:

Is there anything you're doing with that content? You meant you mentioned you asked your your CEO and sales guide to have this conversation for 30 minutes and then you dropped that into the newsletter. Are you doing anything beyond that with it or, you know, you mentioned you're building these landing pages? Are you turning it into actual, like, text? How  are you? Like, this is, this is gold everyone. Like when you get those videos, when you have somebody who could sit down and banter about these things.

Kindsey Haynes [00:33:20]:


Kerry Guard [00:33:20]:

We said we go gold. So like, what are you doing with it outside of the newsletter? And the Lenny

Kindsey Haynes [00:33:26]:

We're with on and off our social media pages, and we'll set it on a schedule. We use SocialPilot for social media scheduling. So it's something that could go out every 3 months, and it's just set there on a schedule. We don't have to worry about it again for the next year if we don't want to. And we know that it's gonna be added to our LinkedIn page, our Facebook page, all that fun stuff. And then also it's something that I go and I send to my manufacturing list. Okay. So whenever I do get a contact, I make sure I'm specific in the list I'm putting them in.

Kindsey Haynes [00:33:57]:

So I have a law list, And then I have, you know, the manufacturing list, and then I have the engineering list. They all get the digest, but then if it's gonna be something specific like that that I know they're gonna wanna watch, why not go ahead and send it out and get that engagement with them? There's no, like, form to fill out. I feel like that's something that does kinda scare people away sometimes is having to fill out a form to watch the video. You know? Like, they're already on our email list. You know, it is what it is. And our CRM tells us that they've clicked a link in the video, yeah, or in that email. So there's no point in even having that download form because we'd know if they've at least clicked the video and attempted to watch it. And then at that point, if Davin wants to give him a call, hey.

Kindsey Haynes [00:34:42]:

I saw you watched our video on cybersecurity for manufacturers that just came out. Do you have any questions? You know, what are you currently doing to protect your business?

Kerry Guard [00:34:54]:

It's, it's very, like, it's got the attribution built in, you got the ability to actually like, Reengage folks, which I think is so hard because not everybody, like, believes in email, so finding other ways to know that they, like, went to your website and clicked and Yeah. And then building those journeys it sounds like the journeys are bigger than just email.

Kindsey Haynes [00:35:18]:

Yeah. I mean, it ties everything together. Without the journeys and I know sometimes they're called automations. I feel like everyone's life in marketing could be, like, A lot messier. Automation, just they're a time saver. I have automation set up to where if someone joins a certain list, They're automatically sent this flow, an introduction email, introducing Davin, and what we do. Right now, Davin has a little hit list, you could call it, I have, like, 10, 20 manufacturers that  you know, he's working on those. He wants them to become clients.

Kindsey Haynes [00:35:52]:

They're perfect ideal prospects for us. And he set up a journey just for them. Everything is specific to the manufacturers, and it contains a case study. And it, brings up statistics specifically to manufacturers and IT and cybersecurity, to kind of Focus on yeah. We specialize in this for your industry, which is very important for anyone that does have an IT company or a cybersecurity company. They need to know your industry standards and what you need to have in place, whether it's to be compliant or for insurance purposes.

Kerry Guard [00:36:31]:

It sounds like your lists in that like, when you when you take a really big list, I don't know I don't know how many were on your, like, You're masterless and then you start breaking it down. You dwindle that pretty quickly. Yeah. So it's but it sounds like with the way you've done it, you don't need These giant lists, they're just very targeted. Am I understanding that?

Kindsey Haynes [00:36:53]:

We also have an unknown vertical list. So, like, if we don't know where they belong, like, they're they don't fit in one of my mass categories of law or manufacturing or one of the main guys that I'm actually building content for, like, I think we have, like, an insurance list that I don't market. They're not our ideal ideal, but they're there. We don't have any insurance clients, but they could you know, maybe in the future, it just we haven't gotten any insurance clients yet, but we do have some, like that in education, it's good to to grow because then you can see who's showing interest in you, What vertical is showing interest? And, you know, we've got, more law clients than we do anything else, so I really focus on law, Building content for law, marketing to law, but I also have these other guys too.

Kerry Guard [00:37:43]:

So how are you,  I think having all these lists is really, like, fascinating and that you're able to do it with so So walk me through, like, this feels really big now. Right? We've taken it and we've talked about all these things you're doing, which, oh my gosh, is 1 human. I don't know how you're doing it all. I imagine it's a lot of caffeine and whatever you're having, I want some too. Yeah. Walk me through, like, how you got started. You've been you've been with this company now for 3 over 3 years, did you just start with a newsletter? Like, help us help us all get started in McKinsey’s way of none.It was webinars.

Kindsey Haynes [00:38:19]:

Webinars. Yeah. Webinars. I mean, because the continuing we're doing continuing education. I guess I could be a little bit more specific on the webinars we're in continuing education, and different industries require, you to get Continued education, say, 3 or 4 hours a year to keep your license. So, like, lawyers.

Kindsey Haynes [00:38:43]:

They're a part of the bar association. They have something called CLEs. They have to go and get however many a year to stay in good standing with the bar. Accountants, they're the same way. They also have CLEs that have to be completed every so often. And, of course, they pick the ones they wanna go to. They're not forced, like, hey. We're having this class.

Kindsey Haynes [00:39:03]:

You have to come. They get to pick what they wanna go to. So we already know that there's semi interest just attending because no one's making them be there. I mean, yeah, they have to get the credit, but they could have chosen any other class. And, yeah, that, like, that really just helped us grow from the get-go because when COVID hit, they were all doing those CLEs and continuing education classes in person. And so we were able to locally go do these presentations, but the 2nd COVID hit, it was easy to just mass do it. Do it everywhere. I sat down, and I remember I spent I don't know how but I went and found every email for every contact that would be in charge of events at the Bar Association.

Kindsey Haynes [00:39:52]:

I sat down and looked at every state. And I just grabbed their emails. I made a list. I called. I reached out. I said, hey. We've got this webinar that we could do for you guys at no cost. Strictly educational.

Kindsey Haynes [00:40:04]:

We're not trying to sell anything, but it's regarding cybersecurity. They do all the back end work, So they get it approved through the state. You have to submit a slide deck. You have to submit, like, learning objectives. Sometimes they need a description, like, marketing materials because they do all the marketing for you.

Kerry Guard [00:40:21]:

Right. Right. Right. Right.

Kindsey Haynes [00:40:22]:

And yeah. And so it was just, we always would have on the last slide, That's when they let you kinda have a little bit of free rein. And you can offer that free assessment, which we've always switched up. We'll offer a free assessment. We'll put our email on there. We'll put a form to download an ebook. You know, we have all these different ways we go about doing it. And so we're able to not only get contact information but, like, know exactly who's interested.

Kindsey Haynes [00:40:51]:

And, yeah, it works out. I mean, some CLEs, we've had over 100 people. There's been somewhere there's only 10, and it's like, okay, but if we can still convert, you know, just one of those, It could be worth it. And it gets us that mindshare because we are known as the experts in that industry. And these bar associations also know that were working with us. Sometimes they'll throw our content on their website. Of course, I give them permission. But I'll just say, hey.

Kindsey Haynes [00:41:16]:

You know, we're a resource for your members. And, of course, it's branded. It has our contact information on it. But we wanna be those go to's in the industry, and that's definitely worked. People see us as that. And then my boss also wrote 2 books, which I think kind of helped with the rapport of these guys. Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:41:45]:

No, I definitely feel like writing books and getting your knowledge out there as a founder has been incredibly helpful. I know another company, in cyber who's doing something similar. He Just launched your book last week, and  it is a great awareness builder and credibility, the credibility pieces here are so important. You gotta build that trust. And what better way to build trust than through that educational piece of trying to really arm these different industries you have to get these, you know, really thoughtful, degrees to make sure that they can do their job really well. So hats off to you all for finding that educational in. And so that's how you built the lists. And then from there, how did you initially market to them, like, you had the webinar?

Kerry Guard [00:42:29]:

Now was the webinar live or was it prerecorded? Was it your CEO who did the webinars? 

Kindsey Haynes [00:42:38]:

What was sort of yeah. The CEO that does the webinars. They switch it up. It's always different. If it's live, they usually record it and then put it in their library for later use, or they'll send it out to people who couldn't make it. It just kinda depends. And then there are some companies that aren't even, Like, an association. And so, for example, like, I think it's, like, CP online or something, and they are for accountants.

Kindsey Haynes [00:43:04]:

It’s just a website and a company that focuses on providing content to accountants. And in return, you know, if, like, with the CPE, and it's called MyCP. Sorry. I remember that. Yeah. It was MyCP. You can upload your content there and people can go in and purchase it or you can offer it for free. And, you can get lists that way too and reach out, follow up, and, try and convert.

Kerry Guard [00:43:36]:

Let's talk about the email piece, and I wanna sort of wrap up here, to give people a sense of, like, start a webinar. Find somebody in your organization who's really knowledgeable and knows how to do these things and can just get on Yeah. Camera and start talking about how important these things are. I love that you're able to do it by industry. That's incredibly handy. Yeah. I don't know that everybody could do that, but, man, if you can, like, double down on that real hard. And then once you, like, capture these email addresses and they get into your system, do we do we immediately tag them depending on what industry they were in, Or did you have to do that over time? What was sort of your process Do you use build out?

Kindsey Haynes [00:44:15]:

Biggest pins on who we're doing the webinar with And if it's in-house or not I mean, if we're doing a webinar for a bar association, I get that list. They're meaning we're gonna be tagged as a law because we know they're law guys. If it's one of our webinars and, say, I've got 50 people, I'm not gonna individually go in and do that. That's a waste of time. So at that point, they'll be tagged as, like, a webinar attendee, but my sales guy can add them to or they'll be in the un sorry. They'll be added to the unknown vertical list. And then as we get to them or look at them or they appear, we will specifically go and switch them as they need to be switched. If they attend a webinar, we try and reach out.

Kindsey Haynes [00:44:55]:

I mean, give them a phone call within that week. It's so fresh on their mind, and we've crafted the webinars To where we hope that after seeing it, we don't have to do much more education at that point, and they're ready to set the meeting because we've already hit all their pain points and, revealed the objections that we hear most commonly.

Kerry Guard [00:45:15]:

That happens? Like you do a webinar and then you set a meeting? That's like Yeah. A thing?

Kindsey Haynes [00:45:20]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Kerry Guard [00:45:20]:

Yeah. This day.

Kindsey Haynes [00:45:22]:

Yeah. You could put the little meeting link in the Zoom chat, and people will just go and click it and just set time on the calendar. That's, I mean, that's, like, the most ideal situation. Yeah. It does happen. 

Kerry Guard [00:45:33]:

Yeah. Well, see holy grail.

Kindsey Haynes [00:45:34]:

Crafting you we've crafted that message. I mean, I have spent so much time on slide decks with the CEO just really Thinking about how we can make it so good that they don't really have to think twice about it once we hit that last slide. And we're not even trying to sell them, we're trying to educate them. 

Kerry Guard [00:45:56]:

Yeah. No. I think that's that's where the trust comes in. Right? 

Like, it's not about Yeah. We don't wanna work with you if you're not ready to work with know how to process, you know, bringing them along.

Kindsey Haynes [00:46:03]:

Yeah. You're so Kenzie, you sort of landed in this beautiful role.

Kerry Guard [00:46:07]:

You've had this incredible journey so far. I can't wait to see where you go. I'm gonna be keeping an eye on you. It's gonna be amazing. It's gonna be amazing. Anything else, you know, we've talked about local, we've talked about we've talked to we've unpacked so much here, but is there any sort of, like, last tips and tricks that you found, like, something you know now that, like, you wish you knew 3 years ago walking into this job.

Kindsey Haynes [00:46:34]:

It's all about picking the right prospect because when I first started, I didn't know I struggled to figure out who that ideal customer was gonna be. I focused on 1 vertical, and it was the water industry. And I realized that they are an older age group that doesn't really understand technology nor wanna deal with it or buy it. So I wasted a lot of time. I don't wanna say completely wasted, but I spent a lot of time trying to work on these guys and educate them to just get no sales. It wasn't working. And I realized at that point, okay, I'm selling to the wrong people. But then when I'm selling to lawyers or accountants, they see the importance of how their data how important their data.

Kindsey Haynes [00:47:22]:

And if it gets out, what could happen to not only their reputation but also Their business? They could go out of business. It's like 60% of businesses that do go through an attack go out of business within that year. It's a pretty high statistic. So they  could just it clicks for them. It clicks for them.

Kerry Guard [00:47:39]:

So nice when you have that product market fit. Yeah. It makes everything easier.

Kindsey Haynes [00:47:42]:

It's nice.

Kerry Guard [00:47:44]:

Kenny, this is amazing. I'm so grateful. Before we close out, you are more than a marketer. You clearly live in beautiful Hawaii, are you gonna do more than hopefully sit at your computer and work all day?

Kindsey Haynes [00:47:54]:

Yes, I promise.

Kerry Guard [00:47:56]:

In the last 3 years in the change of the world, other than moving to Hawaii, you've already used that one and you can't use it What new hobbies or life changing events have sort of happened for you since?

Kindsey Haynes [00:48:09]:

I learned that I like paddle boarding and freediving with sharks. I love swimming with sharks. You can pay some money for a boat to take you up North Shore, and you just get in the water and swim with them. It's fun.

Kerry Guard [00:48:25]:

What island are you on?

Kindsey Haynes [00:48:27]:

Oahu. Yep.

Kerry Guard [00:48:29]:

The North Shore, so I  had a yeah. Plan to imagine it was Oh my gosh. Swimming with sharks. well, if you would like to go swimming with sharks and you're gonna be in Hawaii, you let Kinsey know and she'll tell you where to go. Kinsey, where can people find you if they wanna learn more about these marketing tactics you're using and how to do them better?

Kindsey Haynes [00:48:48]:

You can just find me on LinkedIn, Kinsey Haines. My email's on there. And, feel free just to check out our website Are any of our social media pages kinda look and see what we're doing and, may string some ideas for you?

Kerry Guard [00:49:06]:

I love it. Thank you so much, and thank you to our listeners for hanging out with us. So grateful to have you here. If you like this episode, please like, subscribe, and share. This episode is brought to you by MPG Marketing, the digital marketing agency that helps cybersecurity and complex b two b brands get found via SEO, digital ads, and analytics. Hosted by me, Kerry Guard, CEO and co-founder of MPG marketing. And if you wanna be a guest, DM me. Let's hang out.

Kerry Guard [00:49:30]:

I'd love to have you on the show. Kinsey. I'm so grateful. Thank you.

Elizabeth Hague [01:00:18]:

Thank you. This was fun.

This episode is brought to you by MKG Marketing the digital marketing agency that helps complex tech companies like cybersecurity, grow their businesses and fuel their mission through SEO, digital ads, and analytics.

Hosted by Kerry Guard, CEO co-founder MKG Marketing. Music Mix and mastering done by Austin Ellis.

If you'd like to be a guest please visit to apply.

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